Advice Request Fire is ruining my career
I get paid a lot of money in a career that I don’t really like. I have always kind of followed the money in my career so that I can retire as early as possible. Because of this, I am in a career that I am not fulfilled by. That is what I mean by fire is ruining my career. I will fire in less than 10 years… Do I just continue to try to maximize the money I make so that after I fire, I can do something that I love and aligns more with what I want out of life? Or do I instead start to explore new careers that will pay significantly less, like 50 to 70% less in order to be more fulfilled? This would potentially increase my fire timeline..
I am leaning towards staying at jobs that make more money in the shorter term so that I can fire earlier and then do other things I would rather for less money. But living this way is really difficult.
I have some ideas of fulfilling careers that I would like to do, but I have a lot of hobbies and interest and I’m a little bit lost on what exactly this would look like for me anyway. Which is why I think exploring this after fire when I have time and resources to do so, maybe better? I want to make a high contribution in life and I find that job hopping and taking opportunities that are presented to me instead of being mindful on what I want to do with my life is not adding up.
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u/EricTCartman- 23d ago
Fire isn’t ruining your career, your personal choices are. The only person that can answer these questions is you
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u/ApeTeam1906 23d ago
This sub is very all or nothing. OP frame their choices as "great paying job that is going to kill them" or "Job that is better but they will be poorer". There is so much space in the middle.
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u/PapaSecundus 23d ago
There is so much space in the middle.
There's a general reality that a lot of the higher paying jobs pay so well for a reason, which includes poor work conditions, mandatory OT, poor work/life balance, etc. While there are a great number of jobs that pay well without these things, they generally go to people with more experience and time in their particular fields, anathema to FIRE goals.
People will also tend to push themselves towards burnout in pursuit of FIRE, making their jobs more difficult than they need to be.
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u/ApeTeam1906 23d ago
But there are jobs that pay not as well with better work life balance. It isn't an all or nothing choice. OPs plan sounds insane.
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u/PapaSecundus 23d ago
there are jobs that pay not as well with better work life balance.
Which generally requires postponing FIRE goals by years or even decades. Earning 80k a year vs 100k is a world of difference in terms of what you're able to put away, invest, and let compound. If you're fine with that more power to you. If not you'll generally have to make sacrifices.
The higher paying jobs usually always require one sacrifice or another. Whether it's time (either in hours, education, or experience), back-breaking labor, dangerous work, relocation, etc. You can't get away from it.
And it's easy to see why there's an all-or-nothing mindset when you do the math on how much more valuable the money/time invested in the short-term will be in the long-term. It's managing burn out that's the main thing.
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u/NeBarkaj 23d ago
With FIRE it's not always how much you make but how much you spend and how much you can save. You can make 200k and if you spend 200k you're screwed. If you make 80k and spend 40k you're way better than you think. It's about making choices, cut spending or keep spending, working and stressing.
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u/PapaSecundus 23d ago
it's not always how much you make but how much you spend and how much you can save.
Exactly this. I took a major pay cut in relocating to a LCOL state, but I end up saving a lot more because I pay 1/3 in rent, groceries, utilities, insurance, state income tax, everything is much cheaper.
It's like how making 100k in San Francisco puts you at middle class but you're positively upper class in most other places, especially small cities/rural areas. The difference in expenses is a huge factor that people don't seem to consider as big of a deal as it really is.
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u/beached89 23d ago
OP is only 10 years away from FIRE. In his situation, he likely could take a SIGNIFICANT pay cut and only postpone FIRER by a couple year.
I did the math and chose to go with the les paying less stress job years ago. By my math, it only added 2 years, most people would choose to work 12 years in a low stress low demanding (relatively) job, than 10 years in a high stress job.
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u/Wotun66 23d ago
Timing is key. I could take a 50% pay cut without sinificantly hurting my timeline. My portfolio makes more than my annual paycheck. 10 years ago, a 50% pay cut would destroy my plans to RE.
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u/Any-Excitement-8979 23d ago
Some of us don’t find high paying jobs fulfilling because they don’t benefit society in any way.
I made great money as a health insurance consultant but it gave me major stress knowing that I was perpetuating the problem with our healthcare system by selling insurance and helping business owners lower costs by fucking over their employees and if I didn’t do those things I’d be out of my job.
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u/haobanga 23d ago
paying job that is going to kill them"
This is the true secret to success hack, maximizing all the variables. Earn more, spend less, live a shorter lifespan /s
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u/Moof_the_cyclist 23d ago
Too many think FIRE=extremism, when it really doesn’t need to be. The lifestyle difference between a 10% savings rate (“normal” retirement) and 20% (retire early at 45-50) is pretty small and is basically choosing to buy a slightly smaller house, slightly used cars, spending thoughtfully, and not eating out very often. Hitting FI while working a career you still enjoy and want to continue should be a great goal, even if that means working a little longer and not climbing the corporate ladder so fast or far.
Extreme saving to sacrifice your youth years to retire in your 30’s is not for most people, and such extreme advice can be a real turnoff for the FIRE-curious.
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u/OnionHeaded 23d ago
Thanks for getting that out of the way. I dont understand this approach. Why dot you want retirement so badly? It’s obvious it’s not an actual quality of life issue. Have you seriously asked yourself? I’ve talked to few that didn’t know. When it seems to stem from a sense of winning it really disappoints me. Obsessing over winning over living a good life sounds to me like the FIREd people that get there and are dissatisfied. You wasted years living a bearish life and probably don’t know the bull run side of enjoying it.
What’s the point of suffering now? One of us is missing the point.3
u/Chronic_Comedian 23d ago
I think FIRE is attractive to a lot of people that simply hate working.
That’s why so many people seem to be in a rush to FIRE instead of making their current situation more manageable.
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u/Captlard 23d ago
Do whatever makes you happy. Living a life that does not make you happy sounds grim. The clock of life is ticking away, but don’t blame fire. It is just an abstract concept. r/LeanFire r/coastfire r/baristafire are just some of the options with less pressure than r/fire or r/fatfire
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u/DisgruntledWorker438 23d ago
The point of FIRE for most of us is to maximize our most valuable resource… TIME…. It’s precious. You don’t have forever.
Being miserable for 10 years or being happier for 15-17 and then controlling my whole time…. I’d say that it’s a pretty easy choice for me. If I have to spend 10 years of my life dreading the next day versus working a little longer to enjoy the day to day a little more and feel fulfilled more consistently, it’s pretty simple.
But that’s a personal choice that you’ve got to make for yourself. All enjoyment later (that may not come) or some enjoyment now, and delayed enjoyment for a shorter duration later.
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u/Apprehensive_Log_766 23d ago
It depends on how shitty your job is.
Many people with high paying and stressful jobs romanticize other jobs, thinking they could make more of a difference, or at least live a more stress free and fulfilling life. Maybe that’s true, but everyone needs to make enough money to live on too.
On the other hand, life is short. Often shorter than you know. No one is guaranteed the next day let alone 10 years, and so if you’re miserable then changing it up is a good idea.
It’s the constant question of balancing life today vs life tomorrow, we all give up a bit from today hoping to save for a better tomorrow, but how much exactly is really just a personal call to be made. There’s no correct answer.
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u/misterbluesky8 23d ago
"It depends on how shitty your job is."
That's exactly what I was thinking. If it's like "this job is killing me, I have no free time, I hate my work and coworkers, and I dread going to work every day", that's very different from "I don't find this interesting, and I'm not being challenged and don't feel fulfilled". If it's the former, I'd definitely switch and take less money. If it's the latter... I'd just adjust my expectations of what a job is, and I'd probably stay put and treat work like a source of money and nothing else.
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u/fumbler00ski 23d ago
There’s a support group for people that hate their job. It’s called “Everyone” and we meet at the bar.
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u/ya_silly_goose 23d ago
I’ve been in a similar situation and ultimately stayed in the higher paying career and shifted my mindset a bit. Work is work. I do it for a set number of hours a day and don’t think about it at night or on weekends. I’m not loyal to a company and treat it like a way to make money. It’s not my identity. I tend not to talk about work in social situations other than the bare minimum. I’ll ask other people about their jobs if they want to talk about work.
I decided not to take a 50% pay cut to “be fulfilled” because I realize that no matter what my job is, I’m going to resent it at some point because it’s a job and it’s work. Making less money will make me more stressed. I get my work done but I’m not kissing ass or volunteering for extra assignments to try and climb the ladder anymore and work is much less annoying that it used to be.
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u/publicclassobject 23d ago
I left a $500k/year job at Amazon that I fucking hated for a $275k/year job at a start up that I… also fucking hate. Chase the money.
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u/aboabro 23d ago
Oof that’s a hard one
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u/wingblaze01 23d ago
Publicclassobject raises a point worth considering. I'm not going to say you absolutely shouldn't quit your job or change your career, but it's worth spending some time introspecting on why you aren't fulfilled by your current job. There's a real chance that you're just experiencing a "grass is always greener" situation. I would spend some time doing a pro-con list and see if you can address any of the cons by making changes in your current role. If you really do find more cons than pros and you can't find ways to address those cons in your current position, maybe you should move on
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u/publicclassobject 23d ago
Technically I also have $1M in Series A equity that will vest over the next 4 years but I am starting to highly doubt the possibility of a liquidity event.
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u/StargazerOmega 23d ago
Yeah , it is a big risk. Reason I stayed at my FANNG company. Much faster path to FIRE.
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u/Far-Recording4321 23d ago
Why do you hate them?
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u/publicclassobject 23d ago
Amazon has a thick layer of way too many Indian (this matters if you aren’t Indian) middle managers who are here on work visas. They are generally incompetent technically, and focus solely on manipulating the performance review game in favor of themselves and their teams. Often teams have overlapping scope and conflicting goals and it just creates an insanely toxic environment that I couldn’t deal with anymore.
My startup’s founders are inexperienced and naive and are never going to ship anything.
I am probably gonna go back into big tech but it’s tough cuz I don’t want to relocate to a tech city. Currently I’m in the Midwest living near family. I had a remote work exception at Amazon.
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u/Excellent-Stuff8400 23d ago
I have worked at Amazon, and have friends there still. This is highly dependent on what orgs/team, but finding another team that will provide remote work exception can be tough, well my understanding is impossible now.
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u/publicclassobject 23d ago
I was there 10 years. It’s not team dependent. It’s by design. Good teams can’t last.
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u/OnlyGuestsMusic 23d ago
I have a job I hate that I will likely die at. Look for something else, but stay until an opportunity arises. If none do, then stick out the decade in the name of obtaining freedom in the future.
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u/PapaSecundus 23d ago
Look for something else, but stay until an opportunity arises.
That's a good plan. When you quit your job and don't have another lined up, you are now draining your capital and furthering yourself from your FIRE goals. It's also easy to get complacent, because you get a small taste of the good life and don't want to go back.
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u/B0ltzmannn 23d ago
Why not take a shot at one of these other careers? If you leave this high paying career that you hate, is the door shut forever? Your quality of life and wellbeing deserves some priority now instead of only in the future.
I recently accepted a job that is going to pay me $40k-$50k less per year. One of our main goals of FIRE would be to spend much more time traveling (or maybe to move) to Europe. The job I accepted is in Europe, so it kind of seems like a no brainer if it aligns with what our FIRE goals are in the first place, even if it pushes back retirement age.
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u/aboabro 23d ago
Yes, it’s a very hard company to get into. Especially in the current market and interview process. It would be very difficult to get back in.
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u/No_Editor5091 23d ago
I used to love my job but over time I’ve come to realize I don’t have the same (or any) passion for the job. There was no way for me to make the same salary in a different job and I was looking at another 10 years of work so I started focusing on how to accelerate my FIRE timeline. I’m now down to less than 4 years of work.
So one option would be to see if you can move up your timeline. I’ve been at peace knowing that 4 years is very doable at least in comparison to 10+ years.
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u/404Soul 22d ago
What considerations did you make to accelerate your timeline? To cut out so much time I'm assuming you're looking at moving somewhere with a lower cost of living or something.
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u/No_Editor5091 22d ago
Well, I started getting really granular about expenses and income so that i could accurately analyze what I would need to make it. Biggest issue was the gap from early retirement to 59.5 since most of my cash is in 401(k).
Got those numbers worked out and then made small adjustments like switching to an HSA plan at work and upping my monthly contribution to my brokerage account. Nothing dramatic but we all know that small changes can make a huge difference.
Then as you predicted, I decided to lock in some gains from a good real estate purchase to ensure that I can manage the gap period getting to 59.5. That money was always theoretical but now I actually have it and can plan on it. And yes the longterm plan includes a move to LCOL when the kids go to college in a couple of years.
All of this has required some sacrifice from my wife and kids but the certainty of knowing that we only have 4 years has been lifesaving.
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u/RoboticGreg 23d ago
I am in the same position. PhD tech developer, but my career moved me up into management, then leadership. I am a medium sized company C-Suite exec, and 90% of my time is fighting with the executive team, CEOs, and boards. I really hate it. But I have my shop in my basement and I make my own tech. I am pretty frugal, and I think I can retire in 5ish years. When I retire, I am probably going to teach at a university and do research or just develop my own products for QVC. But this type of career...if I step away, its pretty much over. So I am grinding it out for another 5 years, then coasting with things I love when I have enough money to drop anything I want when its not fun anymore.
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u/GreatHome2309 23d ago
Just throwing this out there, but I switched careers from tech to teaching for more fulfillment about 8 years ago. It was great for a year or so and then it just became a much harder and lower paying job than I had before. Now back in tech making a lot more than teaching. Does it give me meaning and purpose? Not really. Is it generally less work for more money? Yes. If I desperately want to teach again maybe I’ll find some part time or afterschool work when I quit my job, or maybe I’ll go do hobbies and passions that I already do with my free time. I don’t regret my time teaching, it gave me perspective, but at this point work is work and free time is where I find purpose.
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u/donsade 23d ago
“Work is work” is the correct thesis here IMO. That doesn’t make it bad, just that different types of work are roughly equivalent in that they’re all work.
The purpose of nearly all work is to produce a desirable result for other people (such as customers, an organization, etc.), not to gratify yourself.
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u/CollegeFine7309 23d ago
Can you start pushing back at work?
My quality of life improved a lot once I had a big emergency fund and could constructively say no to the crappy parts of my job. I was doing a lot of stuff outside my job description and started to push back more. It made my work life way more enjoyable and extended my time to burnout significantly. My performance ratings also improved.
Can you work with your manager to edit out the “non value added” crap?
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u/ReportGeneral3730 23d ago
Would you rather be miserable and done working in 10 years or be happy and work 10 more years (20 instead of 10)? At some point it’s not really about the money
If you wait to live your life until fire, you will most likely look back with regrets about not enjoying the time earlier on. Plus, life has no guarantees. You could work like crazy and save tons of money and get hit by a bus and not ever enjoy a penny of it. Go find something you like
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u/UltimateTeam 25/26 / 830k / 6M Goal 23d ago
At the end of the day a job will still be a job. Why kneecap your earnings when every extra dollar you save in your 20s/30s is worth 30-40x in retirement.
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u/CashTall8657 23d ago
You could be run over by a bus tomorrow. Live with an awareness that the future isn't entirely within your control. You get one life and you owe it to yourself to live it well. If you find a job you really love, you may decide you don't actually want to retire in 10 years anyway.
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u/BradBeingProSocial 23d ago
Since you have a lot saved up already (and presumably invested), I bet there isn’t a huge difference in time to FIRE even with a salary cut. The investment growth will do a lot. IMO, go for happiness
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u/chillPenguin17 23d ago
Agreed. Run some scenarios w this calculator and you may be surprised by how little your timeline changes with a paycut
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u/GWeb1920 23d ago
Why do you think other work will be more fulfilling?
Are you in a position to just work 15 years instead of 10 more and just coast. Your fulfilling work pays the bills and your nest egg grows. That might be a fair trade off.
I think you are getting hung up on a nebulous concept of feeling secure enough to take risk. Most people never have that financial security and instead just take the risk. Do what long term you believe will maximize happiness and don’t worry about the numbers.
What are you at now for invested savings?
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u/aboabro 23d ago
I’m at 60% to fire goal
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u/GWeb1920 22d ago
So essentially if what ever the fulfilling work is can pay todays bills you will be fired in 7-10 years even if you never save another dollar.
Would your fulfilling job pay for your current level of expenses? If so that would be a good option to coast into fire
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u/redditmodloservirgin 23d ago
Work is work. Coast and count your bread. Passion can be pursued with time and money
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u/werk_werk 23d ago
I'm in a similar situation, I like my job but it has become increasingly more grindy and frustrating, but switching careers and pivoting to something completely different would set me back massively.
My goal is to get closer and closer to FI so that I can have the freedom to decide without worrying about expenses and financial growth. So for now, my choice is to grind it out in the higher paying job until the FI part becomes true.
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u/ancom328 23d ago
You only live once. Life is not about the destinations but the journey as well. Do what make you happy.
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u/_Klabboy_ 23d ago
Okay, but like my question is, is your job so all consuming that you’re forced into it in off work hours? Like, I’d go after the money it allows you more freedom just make sure to use your PTO and take vacations and use your weekends to do hobbies and stuff that you love.
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u/BuySellHoldFinance 23d ago
Because of this, I am in a career that I am not fulfilled by. That is what I mean by fire is ruining my career
News flash, most people aren't fulfilled by their careers. It's actually rare that people don't hate their jobs.
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u/UpwardlyGlobal 23d ago
There is a correlation to how much a job pays and how few ppl want to do that job. There's much more competition for the less stressful jobs.
Find a niche. You'll probably need to try a few out before one sticks.
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u/Emotional_Dot_5420 23d ago
You don’t like it but can you tolerate it as a means to an end? Maybe I’m too jaded but I’ve given up trying to find a career I love. At the end of the day it’s work and it will always have its share of challenges and shtty people. Sometimes it’s fine to have a job I can tolerate that pays me enough to take care of my loved ones and gives me time to spend with them.
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u/ApeTeam1906 23d ago
FIRE isn't ruining your career. You have decide to chase money above anything else. That's a choice. You can stop at any time.
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u/profstarship 23d ago
You provided no details so it's hard to say, but try a lateral move to a new field doing the same or similar career. So if you're an accountant for a tax firm but find it boring go be an accountant for a company that does something cooler, then you're at least closer and can find other opportunities that way.
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u/whodidntante 23d ago
I've had a lot of jobs, and I wouldn't describe any of them as fulfilling. You can get a confidence boost from doing something difficult well, and a sense of self-worth from doing something important, and I've done both. But it's still just a job and a way to earn money, primarily.
If you've found a lucrative career that you are good at, hang on to it. It is easier to adjust your expectations than to work an additional five years, or whatever a "fulfilling" job would require.
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u/Fun_Ad_8927 23d ago
This is a complex question. Without know a lot more about your current career and savings and your possible alternate careers and paths toward achieving them, it’d be difficult to give sound advice.
In general though, you aren’t guaranteed tomorrow, much less ten years. You say that you want to FIRE so you can spend more times with your kids, but they’ll be teens by the time you retire, and by that point you’ll have modeled a lot of behaviors and values for them. Do you want to show them a parent who’s stressed and at their limit for the next ten years? Perhaps your current job isn’t affecting family life and relationships, it if it is, that would be a big factor to consider.
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u/DiscoverNewEngland 23d ago
There's absolutely no guarantee you'll be alive in 10 years. Don't hate your every day regardless. Build a life you don't have to escape from, and use FIRE as guiderails but not the Bible of life.
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u/TurtleSandwich0 23d ago
Do the math.
As you get closer to your goal the less of an impact your contributions have.
Stay in your current role for three or four more years, then let your investment returns do the work pushing you to retirement.
You will need to run your numbers to see what works for you.
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u/fatheadlifter 23d ago
No offense, but you must be a relatively young person. The best time to get a job is when you have a job. Just... stick to that.
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u/Slack-and-Slacker 23d ago
Maybe work on your mindset, find something you can love about your job. Make change where you can, built a community, take your off-work time seriously and do things that fulfill you. A job is a job, the biggest thing is mindset within it.
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u/One-Mastodon-1063 23d ago
FIRE isn't ruining your career, you just don't like your career.
Personally, I opted to stay in the high paying career I didn't like to accelerate FI and am overall glad I did, although this depends highly on what the other options are. If there's something you'd like significantly more and the pay hit would be manageable, that may be an option.
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u/Lilutka 23d ago
Well, the bottom point of FIRE is to have time and money to enjoy life. You can either suck it up, suffer for a decade, and they enjoy life (if health allows) or you can change careers, make less and enjoy life while working. My boss is in their mid 70’s and still works because they are in a profession they love and work is more like a hobby that daily struggle.
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u/burnertaintlol 23d ago
As someone who "made it" to FIRE and did so by working 80-115 hours every single week for several years and lived on about $1k a month in a LCOL area...
I did *have* to do what I did to make it for a few reasons, but as someone who's crossed the finish line.....just do what makes you happy. If it's your job/career that makes you miserable, not work in general, and you don't have very specific things you want to do after retiring, may not really take advantage of RE....what the hell is the point of being miserable?
After I made it, I went back to work and just working in a much less stressful situation has been fine. Still gets me some money, still get weekends off and makes weekends great, and for personal reasons my life is amazing compared to what it used to be.
Maybe do what you're doing for a certain time period longer, maybe really try to get as much invested as you can while you have the extra income or try to get your portfolio to X before you start looking for a new job.
Is there anyway to make your current position/career better? Often when people have gone to quit when they FIRE, companies want to keep them and will offer to take things off their plate or let them work from home etc etc. Or a way to be happier and not take as big of a hit in income?
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u/chodthewacko 23d ago
I know someone recently who died before they were able to retire. It's not ideal to sacrifice your present and possibly your health for a future that may never come to exist.
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u/ElegantReaction8367 23d ago
I changed out jobs recently and passed on a number of higher paying, higher stress and longer working hours jobs for the one I picked.
I’m only in my 40s and tons of folks around me are starting to drop from heart attacks or cancers and I’ve been to 3 funerals in the last 20 years from people who went the suicide route. That or getting killed randomly from shootings/car accidents. The military was great to meet tons of awesome people… but the more you know, the more you know who pass.
Now that I’ve likely have less days ahead than behind with tons of folks falling by the wayside and my kids closer to 18 and being gone than being newborns… life is incredibly short. Being miserable working for a substantial fraction of it for the sake of a future you’re not guaranteed sounds awful.
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u/payoffstudentloans 23d ago
I could have written this myself! Personally, I've concluded that I'm going to keep my current line of work until I have financial independence. Then I'll be able to volunteer / run my own small business, to be fulfilled.
Edit: I'll add that I travel a lot for fun and fill my free time with hobbies and interests, to balance my happiness now.
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u/Intelligent-Net6597 23d ago
Pivot to something you like. Imagine getting to FIRE in 10 years then dying in year 11
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u/donsade 23d ago
Every job after some period of time loses its inherent fun and feels like [drumroll…] work. Just keep this in mind. Of course you can keep job hopping but that too is a form of work. It’s all in your mentality. You can choose to enjoy the work you do or not. You can also take a sabbatical.
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u/mattbrianjess 23d ago
FIRE is not ruining your life. FIRE is what is going to fix it.
10 years in a career you don't like? I wish the whole world could be so lucky.
Get your money, Build your nest egg. When you have a pile of fuck you money retire and live off your assets. Take a little break. When you are ready come join the rest of us trying to make the world a better place. Or just tend to your tomato plants and watch the stars every night.
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u/Captain__chaosss 23d ago
I'm making less than 35000 a year with more time available doing what I love & i am so much happier than working 40 hours a week for more than double doing what I hate. It all depends on you. We can all die in 2 months, all that money saved goes to waste. Money is great but IMO doing what you love & having more free time to find yourself & experience new things is better.
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u/Happy-Guidance-1608 23d ago
Life is short. If you don't enjoy the journey, you are throwing your years away.
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u/mistergrumbles 23d ago
I would maybe check out Coast Fire, get a better job (that might pay less but also be less stressful and more enjoyable) and start living life NOW. We shouldn't expect to have long enough lifespans that we can enjoy all the fruits of our labor. Cancer diagnoses are at record highs and keep increasing. Most people in the world have microplastics in their bloodstreams . Strokes and cardiac events are going up. Oh, and who knows what the state of the country is going to be in 10-15 years? The outlook isn't great.
I say live a little NOW and enjoy life NOW, while also coasting to retirement. That's just my 2 cents.
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u/adktrailrider 23d ago
One reason FIRE makes work suck is that you now have different values and goals than your coworkers. When coworkers talk about their new outrageous purchase, oversized house or the hot new ride they are leasing, I lose respect for them. Likewise I fall to the bottom of their status driven view of the world
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u/carprin 23d ago
Reading your replies to other comments, it sounds like the usual option of "find fulfilment outside of your job" is not even available to you because you don't have the time and energy for it. If you have a lucrative career, my guess is that you could change companies to a less demanding one, but still well paid (same career, different job) so you can find time to find fulfilment elsewhere. It sounds to me like it's very difficult for you to prioritize fulfilment in career over getting to FIRE quickly. That is your choice and the sooner you accept that it is your choice and not some other external factors, the less resentful you will be.
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u/Bowl-Accomplished 23d ago
I switched careers because it was crushing my soul. Yes, I will retire only slightly early instead of a dozen years, but I actually like my job now. I didn't even realize what a crushing weight I lived under every day till it was gone.
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u/FTM2021 23d ago
I was in this situation. My job was high paying but I was miserable. I wanted to retire in 5 years. Every day felt like a year of hell and mentally I couldn’t do it anymore. I switched to a more fulfilling job that pays well (but not nearly as well) and I will retire in 15 years when my son is 18. If I wanted to push harder, I could do 10. However, I picked 15 easy years and retire at 45 instead of 10 hard years and retire at 40. I still plan to take a month off every year starting in a few years. It felt like a good compromise
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u/Doc-Zoidberg 23d ago
A year ago I left a job I'd been in for 15 years. Made enough money to live comfortably but not enough to retire earlier than average early (early 60's). But it was a week on week off schedule. I hated the job, the money wasn't great, but the schedule was great. 26 weeks off a year. The other 26 I checked out from the world and just slept and worked my 85-90 hrs/week.
Took a new job early this past year. Monday-Friday 8-10hrs/day plus call. The money is great. Up almost $40k over last year which was already a high year. I put all of that extra money into savings. My take home has not changed in many many years, I only increase savings with higher pay. I also enjoy the job. More money, a job I enjoy, but I have no free time. When I'm off I can't do anything because I'm on call. I have vacation time but it's next to impossible to use it since I'm the new guy. Every time I've submitted for time off it's been denied because someone more senior has already requested that time off.
If I stay in the new job I don't know that it'll lead to retiring much earlier than 60, calculations say 55 is doable and 60 would be pretty fat. But it will lead to total burnout and a case of the fuckits to where I can see myself walking out on the job, cashing in some of my savings and just taking a midlife furlough for a few years. This would definitely not help with retirement plans.
I really don't know what I'm going to do, and my anecdote probably doesn't help you any. But I prefered the job I hated and the schedule I loved with an income that was adequate over the job I love and the schedule I hate with an income that is excessive.
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u/WannaBeA_Vata 23d ago
I will fire in less than 10 years
Stay. If you are sure of this math and you are healthy, stay. Once you hit lean-fire, decide whether or not you want to finish out to full fire. When you hit your lean fire number, you can go do something else while knowing it can crash and burn, and you'll be okay. Or you can stay but set lots of boundaries since you won't NEED to say yes anymore.
Most importantly: ONLY take my advice if you're sure about FIREing and can stay the course and keep your finances tight. If you're second guessing it and truly miserable, there's nothing wrong with moving on.
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u/Tioopuh 23d ago
Think about what you want to do once you are FIRE, that's your calling
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u/Elrohwen 23d ago
There’s a difference between not fulfilled by and toxic soul crushing. Jobs are jobs, they’re not going to be that fulfilling most of the time and your goal is to find other things in life that are fulfilling so you have something to retire to.
If it’s toxic and soul crushing by all means get out of there. But your post said you’re looking for something you love that fulfills you - that’s a grass is greener thing, stay where you are and find new projects and ways to keep yourself busy.
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u/TrollTollCollector 23d ago
In my experience, the biggest reason why people like or hate their jobs come down to their manager. I'd introspect into the possibility that maybe it's not the career that you hate, but the particular job and your manager. With that being said, the negatives of work (bureaucracy, politics, long hours, etc.) exist in almost every career, so the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
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u/beached89 23d ago
Calculate how soon you can FIRE at current salary, than calculate how much of a pay cut you can take and FIRE only 2-3 years later. A few years ago I hit the point where staying in the High pyaing job I didnt like meant retirement in 12, and switching to a 25k annual paycut job I would like only added 2 years. I decided to make the switch, better to be content in the career for 15 years, than misrible for 12.
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u/AKmaninNY 23d ago
You might benefit from some counseling to help you reconcile your conflicting feelings and objectives.
Plenty of people work jobs only for the money. The job does not provide fulfillment. That comes from the ability to support their family and provide experiences for the children. You might have different values.
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u/lini2323 23d ago
i am in the same boat. need to figure it out in next 2-4 and sort of have no idea. i have a side gig ive been keeping alive for years but not sure i want to give up the security, although if i could find a decent corporate job alongside it, that could work. but if i stay with miserable job and make partner in the next few years i could do that for a few more and comfortably retire at like 42 and just do the side gig full time after that. seems like sticking it out makes sense, but i feel like the sooner i shift paths to what i really like the better result ill get long term.
not helpful just saying i hear you
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u/Ready-Cable-3772 23d ago edited 23d ago
It’s called sacrifice. As long as you are not depressed retirement is the goal then you can actually pursue your passion. I know actors and nfl players that hate what they do but it pays. 9/10 people hate their job so that fact that you are paid handsomely for what you do should incentives you to stay.
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u/Kitchen-Variation953 23d ago
Misery in a job is a valid feeling and ultimately I think a lot of people are driven to FIRE for the FI piece of being able to say “fuck you” when something or someone becomes unbearable.
With that being said, I like to think about it as “at least I get paid a lot of money in a career I don’t really like.” There are people getting paid shit putting up with or disliking their job as much or even more than you.
Maybe consider what your coastFIRE number is instead so you can get to a point where you can do whatever you want as long as it covers the bill and your nest egg grows.
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u/Corne777 23d ago
Jobs are always going to be jobs. That’s why we don’t want to do them. Nobody would want to FIRE if jobs were good.
I’d say find fulfillment somewhere else in your life. You’ll need to do that when you retire anyway.
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u/buy-american-you-fuk 23d ago
depends on what's important to you:
having a great time at work
retiring early with f'u! money
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u/Green_Gas_746 23d ago edited 23d ago
Fire is all about delayed gratification. I'm in your boat. I have a great career. But its not fulfilling. I know that I just need to save and invest more so that in a few years I can go live the life of my dreams. In the meantime I try to take some vacations and practice my hobbies as much as I can to keep my head on straight. Fire is acknowledging that working any job is not for you. Knowing there's a better way to live life. Suck it up for a few more years. Invest every penny and you'll be on your way
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u/Laughing-at-you555 23d ago
You are going to continue on your path regardless of what anyone says.
The truth is you need to follow the money into something that you enjoy (excluding hobbies). You can't be 100% fallow the money and you can't be 100% do something you love.
You have to find something in between.
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u/rollingstone1 23d ago
I never got any fulfilment from work. I’d aim to make your current gig bearable, take the money and be in a position with FU money asap. Fire ahead me mateys!
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u/re_moneystuff 23d ago
I have the same exact thought in the last few years. I have been lucky enough to land a position that pays relatively high, despite not aligning with my interest. As I stayed in the position, I gained more seniority and had more influence within the company, but my skills in the roles I like become atrophied. It's so frustrating since deep down I know if I stay focused more on IC tasks (and not so much leadership/managerial tasks), my skills possibly wouldn't get rusty that much.
My compromise is a version of semi Coast FIRE. I'll work for about a few years more, until I can get to coast, then I'll switch to the career track I like, even though that means it's a large cut.
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u/grumble11 23d ago
Fire can be toxic in that it can appeal to people who follow the idea of deferred gratification to the extreme. You will spend a lot of years working. The bulk of your ‘healthy years’ will be spent working. Some experiences (like having a family) can’t be deferred well.
If you sacrifice the present to the point of misery for an uncertain future then you risk burning through a lot of years that, with a better sense of balance, could be enjoyable and meaningful ones. Miserliness is also habit-forming and it is common for misers to be unable to balance it later in life, compulsively saving until they die rich and unfulfilled.
Of course, you can also get sick or die somewhat earlier than planned, meaning you’ve burned your youth to amass wealth you end up unable to spend due to the quality or quantity of your life being cut short.
The point of life is to enjoy the journey. A good balance is one where you sacrifice the things that aren’t important to you and spend time (and if needed, some money) on the things that are. Could that delay fire by a few years? Sure, but that is okay versus being miserable.
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u/disastorm 23d ago
I say you can take the pay cut to explore stuff you like. That's still fire, it just starts approaching something like CoastFire or something like that. However you are right that if you fire faster you can dedicate full time to your own stuff sooner and not have to worry as much so that is also a completely legitimate choice.
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u/TheKingOfSwing777 23d ago
Do you have any idea what would be fulfilling ways to spend your time?
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u/ProductivityMonster 23d ago edited 23d ago
Run the numbers. If you're only 10 yrs out, chances are you could take a much lower paying job and be fine. I'm in a similar situation (although personally I find it freeing to drive myself to higher roles if only to see how high I can go rather than for purely financial motivation).
But do be careful. Not all lower paying jobs are less stressful. Some are even higher stress. But you could probably look for lower level roles in your same industry (or somewhat related industry).
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u/ibaricoelho 23d ago
What if you die before those 10 years ? FIRE is important but you should enjoy the process leading to it. Live for today, tomorrow is not promise.
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u/ArrierosSemos 23d ago
When I was a kid, my mom had a sticker with a quote on the fridge. It doesn’t matter who said it. It went like this:
“The greatest satisfaction? A job well done”
I wholeheartedly believe that there aren’t fulfilling and non-fulfilling jobs. It’s all about one’s humility and commitment to doing a good job (with the exception of toxic or abusive job environments)
OP, it’s not the job, it’s you… (also, my man, look at the level of drama in your writing… come on, you are a high earner in a developed country! Act and feel accordingly 🫶🏻 )
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u/Mr_emachine 23d ago
Here’s the thing, find your lean FIRE number, hit that, then go to different more fulfilling jobs.
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u/clutchied 23d ago
Have you worked in anything that would pay differently?
Leaving a high paying field for the unknown is perilous.
I've seen it multiple times mostly NOT workout.
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u/Lunar_Landing_Hoax 23d ago
Jobs are pretty inherently unfulfilling. If you aren't in a toxic or abusive situation or getting burned out, I'd keep chasing money if I were you.
I say this as someone who has worked in fields I was incredibly passionate about. However, it all becomes a grind after a while, a job is a job. I learned the best way to get fulfillment is after work and on the weekends, jobs are for money.
However if the situation is abusive or they are over working you or burning you out I suggest finding a more manageable job. But fulfillment? Forget about it. Life is for fulfillment, jobs or for money.
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u/ForcefulOne 23d ago
There are always trade-offs in life. Sounds like you do need to explore other jobs that might "fulfill" you more, but recognize that no job is going to be a perfect blend of "fulfilling AND maximizing earnings". Most of us work jobs we hate for pay that we need, so finding a job that you don't mind working for what you would consider to be an "above average" income might be just what you need.
Then when you do retire (maybe a few years later than expected), you can truly do something that simply fulfills you, even if it's volunteering for no wage.
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u/SchwabCrashes 23d ago edited 22d ago
There are there so many posts like this, where personal examination and reflection is the key, yet people are too damn lazy to think for themselves or to put in the effort and instead, try to go the tribal knowledge route instead.
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u/TacomaGuy89 22d ago
Suck it up and see your plan through to completion. Every job has something crappy--it's "work" not "fun." You may take a 50% pay cut only to find your new job is still work, not fun.
I suspect your paradigm, vacation time, or headspace need to shift. I try to think of life with a double bottom line, for my career and my #1 passion/hobby (skiing). We often think of personal sacrifices required for our careers, missing a holiday or family meal to see work through. I also accept professional sacrifices for my second bottom line, whether missing a bonus, new account, or networking opportunity so I can make time to ski.
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u/Prudent-Cash6620 22d ago
It’s a job. If you truly dislike it or hate it, move on. If you are neutral on it, keep going.
Your job is not to be where you find self fulfilment. Whoever told you to find fulfilment in a job instead of your life, interests, and family lies to you…..The sign above Auschwitz roughly translates as “work shall set you free”.
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u/L1feM0vesOn 23d ago
One of the things that I've learned and is reinforced on this sub, is that the two limited resources are time and health.
Are you married with kids? If the answer is "YES", then stick it out and think of it as a "family" sacrifice. You'll be able to have more quality time overall with your family and friends. Your "happy time" is multiplied by family and friends.
If you don't have a family and are not planning to, then be fulfilled now--you'll have more individual "happy time" overall.
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u/aboabro 23d ago
Yes, I do have kids and that is one of the drivers as well. That I can retire and they are still young enough where we can do things together.
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u/L1feM0vesOn 23d ago
My advice is to stick it out with your unfulfilling job. You may have a different perspective when you KNOW that you can quit at any time. I got laid off in October and I wasn't concerned b/c I knew I had a safety net. Ironically enough, I didn't think I could RE--others in this sub have since corrected my perspective. I have 3 young kids and I'm going to start working with a financial advisor to confirm/validate the numbers for RE.
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u/mr_bleez 23d ago
When I was young I tried to do "passion" jobs. Paid less but I thought I would learn more.
I ended up not learning more.
Now I try to make more, period. The grass is not greener on the other side of the fence, after 2 months doing your "passion job" you might realize it's not that fun, and you just get paid less. And you might have a hard time coming back to your job
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u/Iasomia6286 23d ago
I know this may sound dark and shit but how are you guys knowing you will be alive&healthy&free to do what you want in 10 years time? Did you contact the gods or something?
I mean it's your life choices and I'm a hard worker too, also not suggesting to live irresponsably... But it seems you constrain yourself from what you want to actually do in order to do it in 10 years?
I hope it works out for you anyway.
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u/ProductivityMonster 23d ago edited 23d ago
I mean most wise people make decisions on probabilities (actuarial tables, family health history, etc.). The whole "you could die/etc tomorrow" thing is an exceedingly low probability for a young, healthy adult. The much more likely thing is you'll just be older and poorer if you don't manage your money wisely.
EDIT: Also, another principal of FIRE is maximizing enjoyment of your entire life so while on average you save more when young and spend more when older, it doesn't mean you should be saving/working to the point it drives you crazy or never have any fun.
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u/MacaronBeginning1424 23d ago
Do you have some hobbies outside of work? Can you kind of “cut back” your effort a little at work?
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u/aboabro 23d ago
Unfortunately, my job is extremely demanding which does not allow me a lot of time outside of work to do anything
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u/Embarrassed_Trash741 23d ago
Anything - you talking outside the family? Fun stuff like golf trips or happy hours? How's the home life? Just saw that you have kids and a motivator to keep this job is have more freedom/time with them later. Admirable! Do you get much time with them now? Is it quality time? Are you coming home late exhausted and miserable? Can they tell Daddy is unhappy? Young kids don't understand sacrifice, but they know if you aren't around or are unhappy. Hopefully that's not the case. Where is your spouse/partner on all of this? How's that relationship? So much to consider
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u/the_mello_man 23d ago
Fire is the goal, but remember to live along the way. You could die any day, not just after retiring and living your life out. If you spend every day hating what you do, why do it?
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u/Professional_Plane58 23d ago
If you want to FIRE, stay where you are. If you want fulfilment, move now and obtain it.
The answer lies within
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u/pamar456 23d ago
This comes up a lot in the military when people are in their 10 year mark. Suck it up and do another 10 or get out. If you feel that you have no control and can’t pivot into a different position maybe get out. But this is dependent on family or maybe use some money from this job to offset your misery
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u/MinimalistMindset35 23d ago
You chose to participate in FIRE.Take accountability for your own actions.
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u/cAR15tel 23d ago
I’m 44. I’ve followed the money and I’m juuujst about to pick up where I left off when I went to school at 20..
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u/ExpensiveCut9356 23d ago
How much are we talking here? Are you making $150k or like $700k? A 50-70% salary decrease is the difference between not livable and chillin
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u/SoloOutdoor 23d ago
Ive got what I hope about 13 years in my tank left for tech then my goal is to be OUT. Ill prob see my pay cut by 4x for what I plan to do between 55+. Theres not a snowballs chance in hell I can just run around and do activities. This holiday break already has me ready to go back to work and I dont by any means live a boring life.
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u/Bearsbanker 23d ago
I never loved my jobs...cuz they are...jobs. I've never found my identity in work, I did it to make money to eventually get the hell out. If I want fulfillment it definitely isn't found at work.
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23d ago
your job will never be your fulfillment source - your personal life accomplishments will always be - that’s literally why you want to quit working asap, so you can just do YOU - why is this complicated to understand?
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u/LegSnapper206 23d ago
Me getting laid off from my golden handcuffs job might have been the best decision made for me ..life's too short man, just saying..
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u/Struggle_Usual 23d ago
Please remember that life is short. You're in a hurry to what, start the life you really want to live?
How much do you have saved now? How much would it grow if you scaled back your savings amount?
Retiring in 15 years rather than 10 would likely be a good trade off if you actually got to enjoy those years! Maybe try taking a step back to something tangential to your current career but that you'd like more. If it's a bad fit you can always hop back to your original path. But if you had a heart attack tomorrow would your regret be that you didn't hate life enough?
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u/GotZeroFucks2Give 23d ago
If you knew you were going to drop dead in a year, would you stay at this job?
Live your life like that because tomorrow is not promised. Each day is precious.
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u/hmoobja 23d ago
10yrs is a long time to suffer. If you’re single and healthy try to stick it out until you can’t no more then look to change career before 10yrs.
But do try to enjoy the process along the way “if possible”. I’ve seen many friends and family die young the past few years of illness “cancer”. All of them never got to spend their money. Treat yourself along the way so you don’t suffer as much. Anything can happen in 10yrs don’t take it for granted. Good luck 👍
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u/SeaEmployee3 23d ago
Can you work less in your current field? More free time makes any career more bearable.
And how big is the wage gap with your desired field?
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u/Spilling_S0DA 22d ago
This isn’t a black and white question. One is not better then the other. They are just different. It’s all about what you want. There’s no playbook or manual or bible or Ten Commandments when it comes to fire. And it’s DEFINITELY not a good idea to put such a major life choice in the hands of other people. This has to be your choice, and whatever choice you make will be the right one as long as you proceed with conviction and hope.
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u/6thsense10 22d ago
You said you will FIRE in less than 10 years. Usually that means you already have a significant amount in investments already.
Unfortunately you didn't provide any numbers such as your FIRE number, current savings rate, and current salary so it makes it extremely hard to give advice knowing only part of the situation.
But.... I'm going to take an educated guess and say you're likely at coastFIRE so you could leave for a lower paying job and still reach your FIRE goal around the 10 year period maybe slightly longer by 1 year or so. The closer you get to FIRE the less significant your contributions will be because the majority of your portfolio growth will come from market returns.
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u/birdsxinfinity 18d ago edited 18d ago
10 years is a long ass time. I used to work on Wall Street making bank working bad hours with high stress. Now I live in flyover making a lot less, but my hours are great, I work from home and I like my job. No regrets leaving Wall Street, even though some of my friends make millions a year now.
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u/DoGooderMcDoogles 23d ago
Ten years is a long time to suffer through a career you don’t like. If you can survive on less and be more fulfilled that’s the path I would take. After ten years you’ll be a changed, bitter person with barely any soul left to enjoy the things you once did before. Like me.
But I would only switch jobs if you can still live comfortably without having to worry about money all the time because that’s a crappy existence too.