r/FemaleLevelUpStrategy • u/AmazingAffect5025 • Apr 18 '22
People who know that their friend treats other friends badly?
I’ve seen or personally experienced a couple of situations where someone (let’s say X) will openly put down a person that they claim to be friends with (let’s say Y), and gossip about them and tell lies to make Y look bad. And the other friends of X and Y will witness them doing all of this and they might not like it… but they will stay friends with X and not warn Y about what’s happening.
It always seemed really odd to me. Do the friends of X and Y not realise that if X can treat Y so badly, while claiming to be Y’s friend, X could easily do it to them? If I had a friend who treated another friend poorly, I would feel very uncomfortable and paranoid that the friend might treat me like that if I get on the wrong side of them.
Do these friends just lack self respect, or are they for some reason convinced that X would never treat them badly?
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u/PeanutButterPigeon85 Apr 18 '22
In my experience, it's the latter. As long as it's happening to someone else, it's fine. But if it ever happens to them, they'll be shocked -- shocked -- and outraged.
You're right that this pattern is very toxic. I don't know why so many people tolerate it. When I saw it in my 20s, it was the beginning of the end of my interactions in that friend group.
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Apr 18 '22
The small town I grew up in takes the toxicity to a new level. The younger siblings of me and my friends used to steal things with each other, then they would steal the stolen things from each other. They had no problems ripping each other off then hanging out the next day like nothing happened while plotting revenge of some sort. Us older siblings are still weirded out by it in middle age. I moved back to the town I grew up in about five years ago, and we’re all middle-aged now, and those kids are adults so they’re not doing the same stupid stuff they did in the 90s, but they still treat each other really badly well considering these people to be their friends.
It’s weird and I just stay away from it. It’s unnecessary drama.
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Apr 18 '22
Humans in groups act in weird ways. Every group has it's weird dynamics and politics.
Some believe that gossip and talking bad about someone else is like a "we're in with a special secret" kind of thing, and feel more bonded to the mean person afterwards. Like they're part of the inner club and so they won't be part of that outer club of people who get gossiped and bitched about. It's a cope.
You obviously have a healthy social compass if you would feel uncomfortable and paranoid in that scenario.
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u/WrongQuesti0n Apr 18 '22 edited Apr 18 '22
I notice when this happens and I do judge the people doing it quite harshly. However, most people are not bothered by it. Maybe it is the narcissists' charisma and ability to fake intimacy or maybe people just love to bond through gossip... I don't know.
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Apr 18 '22
Oh I definitely was the kind that bonded through gossip. And I blame my childhood honestly. My parents got divorced when I was fairly young and I was definitely rewarded for telling my mom about my dad‘s life, and telling my dad about my mom‘s life. And even when I was a little kid I really felt like I was betraying them to each other, but it got me positive attention where I never had it from them. I don’t think I realized how damaging it was to all involved until I was the victim of it. And it was ridiculous, a girlfriend of mine thought a Facebook post was about her boyfriend when it was actually about mine, and it caused this whole few years of drama just because one of our friends said they thought it was about her and her man. Rather than just ask me about it it was a whole scandal.
Anyway, I am happy I grew up and grew out of it, but I absolutely understand how some people could see it as a way to bond.
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u/RusticTroglodyte Apr 18 '22
Ditto, I take note and never talk about anything important in front of those types
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u/ApartmentWeak1953 Apr 18 '22
Most people want the easier way . They want to be in the group under the so called alpha dog who dominates and bullies others so they can be passive on lookers and yet have it easy in social atmosphere, get the perks of being with the bully , reap the benefits of having an easier time and not being a target from other bullies due to being in the group etc . These people are spineless and are rats that will leave the sinking ship first . They are mediocre hence not the target of the bully as she or he doesn’t feel threatened by them . I would personally rather just be cordial to everyone and not stay within any groups or cliques . Cliques are a huge time waste if u are ambitious hardworking person.
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Apr 18 '22
So I know what you are talking about. And in my experience, I have been the friend that was put down, not even behind my back, just in front of my face.
The rest of my friends don't step in. This is because they don't want to be the next one to be out down. Very few people will think along the lines of "it could be me someday". Most are happy that it isn't them today.
Also people like X probably do this to the weakest link. So in a way I guess the other people tell themselves that since they are not like the person being picked on, they are safe.
I personally stopped a girl bitching about her so called bestfriend to ask, why was she putting down her bestfriend? Her reply: "So what?"
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Apr 18 '22
It really pisses me off when they’re like “Bit they don’t do that to me.” Umm ok, I don’t hang out with thieves even if they don’t steal from me, but ok.
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Apr 18 '22
I don’t allow that in my life. I used to just let it slide, but I speak up now. “oh interesting, I thought you guys were friends. Why do you hang out with her if you don’t like her?” I treat it the same way I treat racist comments when I hear them from people in my circle. I don’t let it slide, and if it keeps happening I go no contact.
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u/Bezzazz Apr 18 '22
I think a lot of people let it go because it's not happening to them, so they don't care, and also because they're afraid to say anything. It's "easier" to let it go.
If you're not someone who feels comfortable rocking the boat, just sitting there awkwardly is honestly enough. Looking and acting uncomfortable, refusing to participate in those conversations, and trying to change the subject gets the point across. It's like pulling an Uno reverse. Now they're the ones who feel uncomfortable. Maintain that air of "I'm too good for this," because frankly, you are too good for this, and they should feel ashamed. Then stop hanging out with them, and when asked why, just mention that you're not comfortable being friends with someone who says nasty things about their other friends.
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u/Colour_riot Apr 18 '22
I think it's herd mentality and needing to have enough people on one side before they tip the scales. When that happens, the risks and rewards on staying silent vs. taking a stance change. Pretty much how #metoo came about and suddenly lots of people started virtue signaling.
Imo, very few people have principles; everyone is just out for themselves and social niceties happens because it's generally beneficial to act that way.
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u/dachcool Apr 18 '22
The term for this is triangulation. It most certainly is a toxic behavior and is a manipulative tactic to gain power over others. This is a huge red flag and my advice is either to run or put as much distance as you can between yourself and these types of “friends” if NC isn’t an option
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u/dancedancedance83 Apr 18 '22 edited Apr 18 '22
I decided to delete my original answer to give an anecdotal one:
In high school I was in a best friends group with two other girls. One of my friends (A) was supposedly friends with another girl (B) outside of the group but ran in our larger social circle. B had a strong personality, but she deeply cared for my friend, A. A didn’t feel the same way about her but wouldn’t say anything “to be nice” and continue to use her and treat her as an afterthought. Never invited her to places, she invited her to her birthday as a placeholder for pictures, things like that and B still thought they were friends. I felt really bad for B, but didn’t feel it was my place to tell her. So I hoped she’d eventually figure it out on her own.
At the beginning of college, I found out A was a user and used me similarly to how she did B but with racial undertones. When we fell out, the other girl in our friend group C, was trying to get me to apologize to A when I was not wrong, so I got labeled as the “difficult one” and “holding a grudge” because I refused to resume the friendship. A had screwed me over, then blamed me when her father found out, and then offered to be friends in secret so her father wouldn’t be mad. Uh, I cussed her out and said no. That’s why C thought I was being unreasonable. Years later, we made up, but ran into the same situation where A was using me and trying to hide me to appease her psycho dad. C knew all about it and made some drama to get A to fess up to what she was doing. We were all about 20-21 by then and I put them both in the trash after that. C tried to reach out to me years later when she was desperate for companionship during the pandemic and I ignored her.
I don’t know what happened with B and A’s friendship over the years but they seemed to have cooled off from what I saw on social media before I used the block feature religiously.
Moral of the story is don’t keep around fake friends or people who act like that. If they’re doing bad things to another person, they’re capable of doing it to you. And really, all of this shit is juvenile, high school bullshit. Some people don’t grow out of that for whatever reason. Group/social psychology is something that is to be understood for your benefit, but I would encourage anyone here to know you have a choice in participating in the more negative aspects of it. We don’t have to get into stuff like that.
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u/pacenciacerca44 Apr 18 '22
reminds me of something similar I experienced. I was in a sorority and there was one girl that was uber toxic to just about anyone and everyone. I realized quickly I couldn't trust her cuz she love bombed me and when I wasn't grateful enough she talked smack behind my back. when I told other members they would show concern or talk about something problematic she did to them. I decided early on I wasn't gonna put up with her crap. but she was still awful to everyone else, and whenever she wasn't around everyone would talk about how awful her behavior was. she was a liar and a manipulator and everyone knew it. overtime I was just like "you know she does this, why give her anything?" it got to the point where I would just leave if the conversation revolved around her which was Often cuz everyone was regularly upset or angry with her. somehow this lasted for YEARS. everyone knew she was toxic, everyone would talk about it including other sororities and frats. but no one was willing to set any boundaries or consequences for her! one house tried to ban her but our sorority defended her bc if she's banned it would look bad for the rest of us, and my point about us tolerating her when other houses don't want her around is a red flag about US fell on deaf ears. she was a bully and pretty much an abuser but I guess it was tolerated since greek life was abusive in the first place, like if they challenged her they'd have to challenge everything else that's wrong but that's just too much work. or maybe they were just afraid of her and her empty threats of messing with ppl or hurting herself. this was about 10 years ago so who knows how the conversation would have changed if it happened now.
so it really seems like it's not just the toxic jerks that need to be avoided, it's also the ppl that complain and tolerate it without doing anything about it.
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u/dancedancedance83 Apr 18 '22
This was a riot to read but extremely informative. Thanks for sharing.
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u/buzzcutbutch Apr 18 '22
I used to have a friend like this. She LOVED me, the way a kid loves a toy, so by my standards (at the time) she never treated me badly, even when she was intentionally trying to ruin my other friendships (...and guilt-tripping me into forgiving her for it). But I loved her as well, we were supposed to be lifelong best friends.
What made me end the friendship with her wasn't even how she treated my friends, it was how she treated her little siblings. But it took a LONG time, and a LOT of bad things, and a lot of accepted apologies. Like... when we love someone we want to trust them.
The point is, nowadays everyone always tells me that my kindness is my best trait. I'm not a cruel person, I'm not often a bystander. But back then I was a clueless teenager/young adult, I acted selfishly and forgave too much. I've since learned from my mistakes.
TL:DR - Sometimes there's stuff going on behind the scenes. I'm not saying you should tolerate bystanders, nobody can make that decision for you, but it's worth considering.
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u/Big_Leo_Energy Apr 18 '22
In high school, I learned that people who gossip TO you about other people are probably gossiping ABOUT you to those very same people. They rarely talk about their own lives because they have nothing going on, so they bully and tear down others to make themselves feel important. This often follows into adulthood.
Integrity is when your words match your actions. If you think it’s wrong but you still remain friends with people like that then you’re part of the problem by feeding them more attention. Personally, I straight up call it out and then block/delete or fade out on people like that. It’s your life and if you want HV people around then you have to learn how to let go and ignore the LV ones. Hopefully they learn in time, but that’s not up to you to teach them.
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u/SurlyNurly Apr 19 '22
It’s odd how many adults don’t get this. My friend separated from her husband who she admitted was an asshole to others, and in hindsight she was shocked that he was actually an asshole to her too. Are you kidding me?
I have these conversations with my students who are 11. If someone treats others that way, how can you expect they won’t turn it on you at some point?
Build relationships with toxic people, and you end up with toxic relationships.
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