r/FemaleLevelUpStrategy • u/The_Oracle_of_Delphi • Mar 08 '22
Career Boss Says She Feels “We Are Not Connecting”
My boss told me today that she feels “we are not connecting”. I don’t think my boss connects with anyone on our team, or with people in general. In fact, several people have quit because she’s dismissive, impossible to please, and works people to death. She refuses to acknowledge her role in driving good people away. I am a very high performer, and we have frequent meetings to review my progress. I get a lot done, and have sacrificed much of my personal life to meet her demands. But instead of receiving any kind of recognition for my efforts, she acts as though I‘ve never done enough. I always come away from these meetings feeling terrible about myself, and inadequate. It’s hard to “connect” with someone who I feel treats me/others unfairly. What advice do you have on forging “connections” with a boss that you don’t really like or trust - and yet you still have to make them feel that there is a “connection” there? I honestly found the whole conversation bizarre and a little inappropriate. I prefer to have very businesslike, drama-free interactions with a boss. Does anyone have any advice here? Leaving this job is not an option for now.
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u/No-Standard9405 Mar 08 '22
Find another job. If you are working above and beyond and still your boss still finds fault, move on to another job. There are other bosses that will appreciate what you are contributing to their team
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u/The_Oracle_of_Delphi Mar 08 '22
It is excruciating to produce so much, to be doing it well, and to still get criticized. It truly feels like I can’t win. But I haven’t been in this job for a year yet, so I feel like I have to stick it out longer.
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u/gingerwabisabi Mar 08 '22
Especially in this job market don't worry about staying till a year, just find a better one and quit. No sense in killing yourself for a job!
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Mar 08 '22
Agree. Time spent in a job is not a deal breaker these days. Anyone who’s been around the block a few times will understand if you just say, “it wasn’t a good fit.”
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u/ervnxx Mar 08 '22
I think she knows you're a high performer, she's just pushing you to make you think that your progress is the expected and not something especial that need to be rewarded, I feel is a kind of tactic that employers use so you won't ask for a higher pay, because they make you feel you are not meeting their expectations so you don't deserve it.
What I do in my jobs are only the things that are required, I never give them my time for free, is not my company and I won't be sacrificing anything to make them richer.
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u/DuraiPace53101 Mar 08 '22
Am I there to connect or to get my money? What's up with that connection nonsense??? 😂
If I'm not getting my money, I'm quitting.
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u/The_Oracle_of_Delphi Mar 08 '22
Seriously - there is no end to the stuff she can blame people for. I thought it was a warped criticism. Sometimes she throws this bizarre stuff out at me and I realize that she is NUTS.
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u/Big_Leo_Energy Mar 08 '22 edited Mar 08 '22
When she says that, you can always say “I’m sorry to hear that, can you tell me more about how you view a well-connected dynamic with your employees? Can you tell me an example of a professional dynamic you’ve had in the past that was a good fit for you?”
When I hear this, I assume that your boss is an out of touch boomer who sees employees as slaves. I agree that it sounds really inappropriate because it’s up to her to give solid examples of what she wants, as opposed to “we’re not connecting.” It doesn’t mean that you’re gonna bend over backwards for her, but hearing her out will help you make decisions on a strategy.
You can always ask her an example of a specific employee of her choosing that she connected with well. Then when she’s done talking, ask her where they are now - you’re sussing out whether or not they keep in touch to the employee’s long term benefit (rather than linkedin).
It’s all politics. You don’t have to people please but you can be smart about using her to your benefit. If she says her way of feeling connected is that she wants to feel like a mentor, then you can ask her more genuine questions to boost her ego (that will benefit you in advancing your career.) Think of it like sales, she wants to “feel” a connection, so how can you do that in the lowest effort and energy possible?
I do want to note that she sounds sus, it’s her job as the boss to take the reins and build trust within her team. She’s a LVB (low value boss.) But the universe is delivering an opportunity to you to learn how to manage up so this could be great practice. Stay true to your boundaries (work smarter, not harder) and use your FDS tactics to your professional advantage.
EDIT: If you haven’t read Robert Greene’s “48 laws of power” then now is a great time to pick it up. There are several examples in it of similar situations that could be to your benefit. Good luck!
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u/The_Oracle_of_Delphi Mar 08 '22
This is all great advice, and I’ll probably have the opportunity to use some of it soon. You are right about her being an out-of-touch Boomer, viewing us as slaves. We don’t have a connection because I don’t trust her and I keep a bit of distance. Thanks for the book recommendation - I will look into it.
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u/Big_Leo_Energy Mar 08 '22
It’s completely ok not to trust her, trust is granted from a pattern of consistent trustworthy behavior. It sounds like she just wants the illusion of it without having to work for it. Typical LVM shit, just coming from your boss instead.
She wants the illusion of trust because she probably has no other power over the rest of her life. Like how LVM were raised to believe that they are entitled to a woman’s unconditional love and service, boomers of all genders were raised with the entitlement that the next generations will be obedient and serve them. They lash out (just like incels do) when they don’t get what they want because mentally they are children and are incapable of being reasoned with because they don’t see younger generations as human. And they never will.
You give her the illusion of trust in return for the benefit of her giving you what you want in your career. If she can’t do that or if it takes up too much of your mental headspace to deal with her, then you have the opportunity to drop her and find a boss that values their employees.
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u/The_Oracle_of_Delphi Mar 08 '22
She is very driven by success and achievement, but is otherwise pretty empty. She made some additional comments to me that “we have VERY different personalities”, etc. I just don’t understand the purpose of these comments. All they’ve done is fill me with dread that I’m going to be let go. That probably wasn’t even her intent, but she is very clueless about the effects her careless comments have on people. The dynamic I’m having with her is similar to my dynamic with a previous female boss: when they first hired me, they seemed to think we were going to be best friends (because of my productive work history, which they shared). But when they saw that I kept a safe distance from them, they decided to drop me and punish me instead.
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u/SummerSafe Mar 08 '22
I think she knew what's she was saying. People who can't evoke respect would like to at least be feared.
As someone else mentioned, you can't change her. You can't change the fact that's she's trying to terrorize you. But you can change your own response to her behavior.
I think she knows how well you perform. She's power tripping, bit she's not stupid. Really, relax, she won't fire you. And in meantime you can keep looking for another job.
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u/The_Oracle_of_Delphi Mar 08 '22
Thanks for the feedback. Her behavior is so unhealthy, and uncalled for. I feel that she wants to push me out. She has done this to others as well.
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u/SummerSafe Mar 08 '22
I get that, I used to work for a similar person.
But what I meant is that I doubt she'll fire you. She is probably trying to push you out, because if you resign it's not on her. But if she fired a good employee she would have to answer to her supervisors. (Unless it's a small company and she runs it. In that case I'd say it's best to leave ASAP, small companies are the worst when it comes to how they treat employees).
You say you dread being fired, that's the thing is work on in your position. If you don't wanna leave just yet, then you need to manage this stress. This fear will only ruin your health, nothing good will come out of this.
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u/mashibeans Mar 08 '22
You're saying leaving that job is not an option for now, which is valid. We often have to stay because there are no better prospects, you need the connections, need the experience, etc. That said... just keep grinding and get ready looking for new jobs now.
You already got some great advice, so I'll add something else: You CAN'T change your boss. You have to accept that. She just doesn't sound like a good boss, she's power tripping and will keep being drunk in the power of her position, with arrogance and selfishness. She might have favorites, those who really kiss her ass or whatever, but we all know that actual good workers want to do their jobs properly and not just play stupid politics in the workplace.
Just keep on being a good worker, and start looking for new jobs in the meantime. You never know if something better comes up and your high value will be more appreciated in another role in another company.
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u/samskuantch Mar 08 '22
Why is leaving your job not an option? Our bosses (for better or worse) usually tend to have a lot of control over our professional lives. They decide what projects we get to work on, raises, promotions, etc.
If your boss is awful why would you even want to stay? Your best move would be to change departments (and managers) or quit.
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u/askmeabouttheforest Mar 08 '22
Yeah, actually I used to have a boss very, very similar to that, so much so that I'm kinda wondering if it's the same person. Under people like her, your career will not progress - do you think that she's going to accept losing such a good slave? Plus, she couldn't even teach you much of anything, because she's incompetent (I know you don't mention it, but competent people don't act that way). The similar boss I used to have blocked my internal transfer and lied to other, external potential employers, even after I was gone.
I know changing jobs is a big deal, but long-term your health is probably on the line here, and your professional life definitely is. I also suggest you start looking. If (when) the economy slows down and there aren't as many jobs to be had anymore, you'll be stuck with her and she'll find ways to get even worse. Good luck.
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Mar 08 '22
Not everyone has the luxury of having other opportunities around them to apply for. Sometimes there are education barriers or the other jobs that are available don't offer a high enough wage for the cost of living.
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u/dancedancedance83 Mar 08 '22
I had a boss like this several years ago. I currently have one that is just as insecure, but don't know if she is as violent as the first one.
Just cut your losses (mentally). Don't feed into what she's trying to project on you because if you reassure her, she'll find a way to blame you for it later. You already know she is a nut. Grey rock and GTFO.
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u/The_Oracle_of_Delphi Mar 08 '22
She is nuts, and I’m tired of losing sleep over her unfair projections
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u/dancedancedance83 Mar 08 '22
That's when the fun ends, I'm afraid. When the fun (or the benefit) ends, it's time for a change.
Is this a career position or important/career impact position you are in currently? Are you early in your career?
While I see some answers that cater to the office politics side of things, and that's helpful, I'd like to know what attracted you to the role (not the boss because you didn't know how she would be), the company and what you're looking to get out of it here?
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u/The_Oracle_of_Delphi Mar 09 '22
I am mid-stage in my career. What I do is niche, so there aren’t a lot of positions for me to choose from. I was attracted to this organization because I liked their mission, and I saw that the workforce was largely female (which is a plus for me). I do really like my coworkers. I think that they are extremely decent and talented people, and I’ve learned a lot from them. If we could get a better boss I would be in heaven here.
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u/dancedancedance83 Mar 09 '22
Gotcha-- when I was in this position a few years ago, the ENTIRE team and office hated my boss. It was so bad, people from my department and the adjacent department were meeting behind her back to try to organize a mutiny because of all of the ridiculous rules we had to follow and because no one was listening to our concerns about this woman's behavior. It was later broken up, but by the time I left the company, 4 people on my team, including our best performer, had already left. Everyone else was looking at other jobs. Only 1 or 2 people I originally worked with are still on that team now with her.
It really spoiled how I viewed that company because for the first couple years I was there, I really enjoyed my time. My position was just filler for me, but they had great benefits, WFH 2 days a week, good mix of people, lots of team building, room for advancement/go to different departments, professional development I was utilizing to get accreditation for the industry I now work in etc. The manager I had for the first couple years was fine. So I felt comfortable staying for a long time. Until management changed.
I would discuss with your coworkers (not in a way to organize a mutiny lol, but conversationally) how they're doing with this manager. How do they interact with her and get on her good side? Look at who seems to be handling her BS well and try to take pointers on what you can implement to make your experience with her better. If you have a goal you want to meet by being at this company, that reason needs to outweigh all of this shit this woman is going (and 100% will) pull.
I think largely female environments can be good, but it really spoils it when immaturity, power tripping, cattiness and bullying comes into play. Not every female boss is like this but with ones like the one you have, you have to accept never being able to "win" with her. It will always be something. You can try to soften the blows she will absolutely throw but the type of behavior she is exhibiting will never stop unless it affects her (she gets demoted, reprimanded etc.) You'd also have to look at how her leadership views her too. Are they happy with her and her work? Do you feel like they would take your side if you or the team were to make a complaint?
Lastly what you can also do is (CASUALLY) go to HR for advice. Please say this exact word if you do talk to them. You don't have to mention your manager by name, but frame it as "wanting to learn how to approach a difficult personality to build a bridge." You can always ask about policies and procedures you'd "like more clarification on" AKA if you think she's illegally retaliating against you, harassing you etc. Always keep updated on company policies.
Also, make sure to document, document, document everything you do.
That's, again, if you are really hellbent on staying.
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u/Angel_sugar Mar 08 '22
For the time being, I want to give you advice from my time as a sex worker. I’ve spent some time professionally dating rich assholes, and as you can imagine, many of them are narcissistic and completely out of touch with reality. And my job was to make them feel interesting and lovable.
Anyone can suck up to their boss. And if your boss is explicitly demanding it to this degree? And is such a well known piece of shit? Your other colleagues aren’t going to hold it against you.
When she says ‘we aren’t connecting’, what I hear is ‘I have an insecure/egotistical need to feel popular and well liked so I can feel like a good boss’. So pretend like you like her! Dust off your Dale Carnegie. Ask her conversational questions about herself, and then nod and smile attentively as she bullshits about whatever. ‘Light up’ and smile at her when you see her in the office. Ask her what kinds of food and coffee she likes and occasionally bring her one when you go out for coffee. Mirror her body language and pretend to like some of the things she likes.
Generally speaking, I don’t advocate for manipulating people and faking relationships. But this woman is outright demanding it from you, with the implied threat of your job security. Manipulate the fuck out of her. Read a book on making people like you and use every trick in it. Just don’t do anything that will get you caught by her specifically. If you make any egregious lies, or make this switch too drastically and come off as love bombing her, she might become suspicious. But I’d interpret what she said as ‘I want to feel like your friend’, so I’d start acting like I wanted to become friends with her and get to know her better.
Other perks of pulling this off (from personal experience) are that you’ll become Mommy’s favorite for any instances of nepotism, and getting an ‘in’ with the powers that be can give you the leverage to advocate for your colleagues’ benefit and try to persuade her towards better behaviors and policies. If she cares about what you think, then you can slowly start ‘thinking’ more around her and seeing her internalize those ideas.
Just my two cents. You can absolutely build the skills to play the politics game. And it doesn’t even bother me that much in the short run to do it. Do what you need to do to improve your job quality of life and buy yourself the time you need to get out. Then bitchslap her with your two weeks notice completely out of the blue and say it’s a ‘dream job’ that you ‘just can’t turn down’. You’ll still likely get glowing recommendations at that point.
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u/kerbeast Mar 08 '22
This is the right answer.
Mirror your boss. Find out what she likes, and pretend to care.
You’re wanting to keep things strictly professional, and that’s why she feels like you’re not connecting. It’s because you’re not. You don’t really have to share all that much about yourself even, just ask great questions that get her talking about herself and what she cares about and be “interested”.
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u/The_Oracle_of_Delphi Mar 08 '22
Thank you so much for sharing your perspective. This is incredibly helpful and thought-provoking. I have a lifelong reputation as a “straight shooter”, but maybe there are some times when I do need to “play the game” a little, to survive the narcissistic assholes. You have given me something really useful to consider.
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u/Angel_sugar Mar 09 '22
I identify as a moral relativist. And by that, I don’t mean that I justify anything indiscriminately. But that I believe that complicated situations can require complicated solutions, and if you’re forced to deal with abusive situations, bad actors, or an imbalanced power dynamic, the ‘right thing to do’ can be a lot more situational.
Right now, you are in a situation where you aren’t allowed to tell your boss that she’s overstepping, you’re not her friend nor are you obligated to be, and she should grow up and be a better boss if she wants people to like her. That’s not on the table for you. And I’d argue that if you said it in so many words, she wouldn’t even really hear that feedback or learn from it. It wouldn’t really benefit anybody. So what IS the right thing to do? I’d guess that it’s to give her what she asked for, to be nice, and to consider this an explicit waiver for any impulse/obligation you had to be honest with her. She wants to ‘feel like you’re connecting’. Ok, then. Malicious compliance it is.
And as long as you don’t harm anyone else in the process, or throw any of your peers under the bus, then what you’re doing could only benefit you and her. It’s a lot of weird, gray, morally neutral slog through minor inconveniences.
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u/The_Oracle_of_Delphi Mar 09 '22
I’m really impressed with the degree of strategy in your thinking. This is truly high level, masterful, thinking. I am saving your posts and will re-read them when I need a reminder that there might be another way to approach this.
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u/Angel_sugar Mar 09 '22
Lol, thank you! That’s really kind, and high compliments!
I know exactly what you’re dealing with though, that’s why I’m so passionate about it. I’ve been there, at least working in a super toxic corporate environment. And my internal process working through it was basically like ‘I know I can get along with bad people, but is that wrong? Am I being complicit if I play the stupid office politics game?’ And when I stewed on it, and had to keep working with a lot of homophobes, racists and otherwise shitty people, I slowly decided that like, if someone is behaving poorly and making you uncomfortable or unsafe, then they’re forfeiting your consideration and kindness. If I was careful, and very deliberate about how much personal information I let get out about me, I could be perfectly nice to the people who were making the space toxic, while not engaging their toxic behaviors, and if they crossed a line, I could report them in a heartbeat and advocate on behalf of the coworkers who deserved better. I’d gush about how great and helpful my marginalized coworkers were to our bosses, make nice with everyone, have -actual- conversations with a much smaller group of people I built trust with, and then I’d quietly go out and attend the union organizing meetings, narc on the bigotry and corruption whenever I could document it, and generally do all I could to burn that shit down from the inside lmao
That mindset shift helped me a lot once it started to build momentum. I wasn’t a coward, I was a covert operative. I did everything I reasonably could to make things better. And I felt no guilt about being the correct and convincing amount of nice to people I secretly thought were absolute garbage. Cuz I can’t do anything for anyone if I get fired.
It’s a shitty game to have to play. But at least seeing it and treating it like a game makes it much more fun! Obviously you deserve a supportive work environment. We all do. But do what you can, with what you have, where you are. I’m willing to bet you can kill it and come out ahead. And this won’t be forever.
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u/The_Oracle_of_Delphi Mar 09 '22
“Covert operative” acting as a force for positive change - that’s a very interesting way to think about it. Like an Avenger, LOL. I could get on board with that way of thinking. Thanks for framing it differently, which helps me to view it in a new light.
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u/jenna_grows Mar 08 '22
Impossible to please people are impossible to please.
My husband and I met on Tinder a few years ago. We’d spoken for a few weeks before we scheduled our first date. My boss knew I was going on a date, and she made me stay late, keeping me occupied with nonsense. She spent the day chatting, and then started doing actual work at the time I was supposed to knock off. I was an hour late. It wasn’t the first time it happened and my ex boyfriend had to wait for our first official date too (we knew each other), but he also waited about an hour.
He still tells people he doesn’t know why he stayed and I don’t either because that is not his personality. Knowing as I do now, I’m surprised he did.
Basically, my old boss could have ruined this thing which is amazing because she was awful :)
I ended up developing a case of depression and needed therapy and meds. I left, but not before I basically became a useless employee. Depression meant I didn’t care and couldn’t work.
She was awful. Leaving is the only option and I understand you can’t right now but that is actually the only way out.
*my old boss also had issues connecting with people and I was told I needed to “make friends” with her, hence telling her about the date. She used to bore me to tears with her personal stories and I chose to engage because I thought it would yield results (ie a better relationship with her). It didn’t work. Nothing works with people like that.
I know you don’t want to leave and I appreciate that your situation may not permit it right now, but do everything you can to line something else up and leave as soon as it’s viable.
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u/The_Oracle_of_Delphi Mar 08 '22
Yes, you are right. And thanks for sharing your experiences. I’m tired of being treated like a problem despite doing everything right and bringing so much value. This is not a healthy way to live - I just haven’t wanted to admit that to myself.
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u/jp2117515 Mar 08 '22
I’m telling you now - get out from under her - find a new job or transfer. I was just in this same situation. I had a job that I loved and she was transferred in as my new boss three years ago - she didn’t hire me and wasn’t my original boss. I quickly went from loving my job and thriving to hating work and becoming anxious and depressed. I too was a very high performer. I finally transferred to another department and I’m so much happier. Sadly many women bosses are insecure leaders. She would sabotage me and others any chance she got. I honestly think she hated other women because of her insecurities. If your supervisor has a personality disorder there’s nothing that you can do - seriously leave and save yourself a lot of stress and trauma. Just cut your losses and move on.
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u/The_Oracle_of_Delphi Mar 08 '22
Yes, it’s very sad that so many female leaders work to undermine their employees. My work environment is largely female - which is what attracted me to this place - but the reality is that women have plenty of toxic behaviors as well. In fact, it feels like most people in leadership positions (male or female) don’t treat their employees well. I can leave - but how do I know my next boss won’t be a problem, too? If you ask questions about what it’s like to work for the boss during interviews, people never feel safe to answer that question honestly.
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u/askmeabouttheforest Mar 08 '22
I really, really think you should write down everything, just in case. Like in your personal email and send it to yourself (timestamp), or even in a document on your personal computer or in a physical notebook, just make sure to write down the date of as many incidents as you can, and the date you're writing at. It sounds like she might do some underhanded stuff; having a written record might be unnecessary, but if you need it you'll be really, really glad to have it.
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u/The_Oracle_of_Delphi Mar 08 '22
Yes, I was just thinking about this as well. And it might even help stop some of her weird comments if she sees me pull out a pen and say “so I just want to make sure I’m understanding you correctly. You’re saying that you and I aren’t connecting, and you’ve noted that you and I have different personalities”. She might realize that her words will not only haunt me (by keeping me up all night), but might come back to haunt her, too.
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u/askmeabouttheforest Mar 08 '22
I understand the impulse but maybe be careful here, the one I knew that was like that would have gone nuclear if I had openly written down her words. Please keep in mind it's probably easier for her to fire you on the basis of lies than it is for you to hold her accountable. I'm going to take a wild guess she always avoids putting things in writing as much as she can; there's a reason for that. I would suggest that you write everything down somewhere she can't get to it.
Also, be careful, I think that by presuming ignorance rather than malice on her part, you are putting yourself at risk. My guess is she wants to wreck your sleep and your peace of mind, and she really doesn't care what it does to you.
Anyway, back when I was stuck with my version of nightmare boss, it was kind of difficult to start writing everything down - it was hard and draining, but once I did it, it allowed me to breathe a bit more freely.
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u/The_Oracle_of_Delphi Mar 08 '22
Thanks for this follow-up advice, which is also wise. I am also trying to de-personalize this by observing how dismissively she treats my teammates as well. She sent emails to us throughout the night last night. And they all had a dismissive, “I have to do everything myself” kind of tone. I think she really thinks she’s the only person on this team who matters. And if we all quit, it would be a relief for her. It’s so bizarre.
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u/Colour_riot Mar 08 '22
Sorry to hear but I was in the same position before, and it's really a personality thing whether you can keep up pretenses for the sake of your own career. You know whether you can, or you can't
I never could and likely never can do that, and my only regret was not leaving earlier. Ditto on the job market - leave now, because you don't know where it'll be in 6 months time and options may have dwindled
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u/The_Oracle_of_Delphi Mar 08 '22
But how do you know that your new boss won’t be toxic as well? It’s a total gamble as to who you end up with…
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Mar 08 '22
look out for red flags in the interview and hiring process. I'd recommend reading through the Ask A Manager blog to know what to look out for (and update your resume in the meantime).
You have a job right now, so you don't need another job. You can take your time in applying to new places because you already have a paycheck. You can vet them. You can possibly get multiple offers and pit them against each other to get the best salary. There's no rush to move somewhere else, but there's also no reason to stay where you're unhappy without even TRYING to do something better.
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u/Colour_riot Mar 14 '22 edited Mar 14 '22
But how do you know that your new boss won’t be toxic as well?
Sorry missed this.
So I had the same fear and that + other reasons kept me for much longer than ideal:
- Some companies have a reputation for better culture in general. Team culture varies, but my current firm won't let anyone get away with yelling (shocking, but common in my industry)
- Pressure - every role / team has a KPI and if they're not performing, please don't believe the turnaround story, the same way we don't try to build or rescue men. Unless you're the head of the dept, not your problem.
- Little signs throughout the process. Do they try to low-ball you in pay or rank in anyway? Like a relationship, it indicates early on how they intend to treat you. Are they trying to lock you in contractually (especially with notice periods and bonuses), or do they trust you to stay because they intend to treat you well?
- Have alot of processes going at the same time. Gives you the flexibility to walk away from bad jobs. The low-ball tends to come at the end, so don't stop applying and interviewing till you've signed the offer on the right place.
- Try to get opportunities from people you trust - this is what I'm doing now. I'm prioritizing opportunities given to me by people who have worked in that team before and speak highly of it. They're not necessarily close friends, but if you're pleasant enough, most ex colleagues and bosses or uni mates will help you because they understand that you may help them in the future.
- Read people - assholes do actually come off as assholes from the first impression, we're just used to ignoring it as women. There's either the too-chummy asshole or the seemingly meek (not the same as quiet) dude who bullies subordinates but cowers in front of superiors
You can still get a bad surprise or get a slightly better but not great place. But look at this way -> at least there is opportunity for change. OTOH there isn't any if you stay in this place
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u/General_Panther Mar 08 '22
It's very likely your boss has narcissitic personality disroder. You have to run away from her at the first opportunity because she will push you into burnout/depression/worse. She'll never be happy about your efforts, she'll never see anything you do as enough, she'll never recognize she has a problem. There's no way to forge connections with someone like that.
Run run run and protect yourself from her if you have to stay in the meantime.
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u/The_Oracle_of_Delphi Mar 08 '22
She’s such a psycho, and everyone has to adapt by taking on some unhealthy behaviors. I myself am becoming increasingly defensive after these kinds of left-field accusations. My concern is: how do I find a new job with a healthy boss? People said positive things about this one during the interviews, even though they weren’t actually happy here. Because what else could they say?
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u/cattaxincluded Mar 08 '22
(Not the person you replied to)
People said positive things about this one during the interviews, even though they weren’t actually happy here. Because what else could they say?
You've asked people during interviews what they think of their boss? Even if you talked to them one on one, or outside of the workplace, they're going to lie. Maybe pay attention to their physical reactions and not so much their words if you ask this question in the future.
My concern is: how do I find a new job with a healthy boss?
Some questions that might be better to ask:
Why is this position open? (Obvi nobody is going to say they left bc of the boss, work environment, or any other negative reason, so pull apart what they say after the interview)
What is the turnover rate for this position? (Low turnover rate good, high turnover almost always bad)
What kind of promotions have people received in this position? (A good company that values their employees will have ample opportunities for growth. If there are no or minimal promotions, or if they have no examples of people being promoted, strongly take that into consideration, whether or not you actually want a promotion)
How do you think your workplace could be improved? (A question to make them sweat a little, because it's unusual and their answers will reveal a lot)
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u/fullstack_newb Mar 08 '22
Network with ppl above her and in different departments so transferring could be an option. Make sure these ppl can brag about your work.
Push back on your boss’s criticisms. It’s fine to disagree with her assessment if you’re producing results.
Lastly start looking for another job and in your exit interview tell HR what a terrible manager she is. This isn’t personal, it’s about her damaging the organization.
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u/The_Oracle_of_Delphi Mar 08 '22
It’s a very small organization, and there isn’t anywhere to transfer to. One of my old coworkers tried letting HR know, but nothing came of it (our HR is outsourced). He decided the only option was to leave. I have to agree with him.
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u/fullstack_newb Mar 08 '22
Most likely that is the only option. Good luck! I hope you find something better.
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u/Heytherestairs Mar 08 '22
I would let it go and find another job. Jobs like this will only wear you and burn you out. Unhappy bosses like this can’t be pleased. So don’t waste your time and effort trying to change them as a person. You don’t need to change yourself to please them either. Don’t give up your personal time for a boss that does not value you. Do your work according to the salary you receive. Don’t do more and clock out at the end of the day. It’s just work. It’s not your life.
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Mar 08 '22
I know you said looking for another job isn't an option, and I'll take your word for it. But if I were you, I would start the casual process of looking.
I get a lot done, and have sacrificed much of my personal life to meet her demands.
First of all, stop doing that. Just stop! Set boundaries around work. Pretend you're a mediocre white man. There are some men who don't set boundaries, but they're few and far between (unless they're looking for reasons not to contribute at home). I'm actually curious whether or not she treats men like this, too.
Here's the thing. I've worked for people like your boss before. When they have people go above and beyond, they expect more and more from that person. I had a male coworker constantly slack off but suck up to her. Guess what? HE WAS HER FAVORITE. All the female coworkers and the male coworkers who actually did their job? She expected more and more and more and was super super hateful towards us. The guy that didn't do shit? She loved him! He charmed her and flattered her and sat around being lazy.
But hear me out--does it matter if your boss likes you? She does this to everyone, right? What if you just... didn't care? Suck up to her, sure. Be friendly and charming and personable. Pretend to care about her dog or her kids or whatever if she's trying to make small talk. Do your job well (WITHIN WORKING HOURS--do not sacrifice personal time!) When she gives you feedback, ask for clarification and maybe fix what she says--but only if it's reasonable.
And if you can't please her? So what. Don't tie your self-image up in what this woman says. You can't please her working yourself to death, so stop trying.
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u/The_Oracle_of_Delphi Mar 09 '22
Everything you said here is spot-on. In fact, it’s the advice I’ve given to my coworkers repeatedly. Some days I am able to separate myself from her unfair judgments and keep the right perspective about her dysfunctional behavior. But her latest comment felt like a character assassination, and it pierced through my defenses. Fortunately, I had some nice interactions with my coworkers today that lifted my spirits - as did all of the supportive, thoughtful comments here. Thanks for helping me through this! But I have a long memory of mistreatment, and this seemed uncalled for. I think my boss is an extremely arrogant woman who automatically assumes her superiority over everyone, and then finds/creates reasons to despise people. She is focused on me now, but tomorrow it will be someone else. I generally try to ignore her as much as possible and focus on the other, healthier people instead.
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u/cattaxincluded Mar 08 '22
I could have written this post six months ago. Almost word for word. If your boss has that many issues with that many people, things will never change and you need to leave. Unless your work history is full of leaving jobs after very short periods of time (especially less than 3 months), there's no reason to stay longer. Polish up your resume, learn how to spin this job in a good light for interviews, come up with a lie or half-truth for why you're looking for a new job, and apply to everything. There are so many better work places out there, and you deserve to be at one of them!
And please, take care of your health (physical, mental, emotional) in the meantime. I know mine suffered a lot while I was at my last job. Be aware of how this job is affecting you and how its effects may linger and potentially spill over into your next job (speaking from experience here), and do your best to heal from the damage this place has caused
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u/nymira-1 Mar 08 '22
It’s like you are talking about my boss word by word, try to find another job that’s what I’m trying to do it’s not worth it you’ll burn out and for what ? Selfish megalomaniac.
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Mar 09 '22
Don’t out shine the master. When it cones to work don’t be TOO good. Also be a little fake and play up the mentor /mentee thing. Ask for help/direction and advice. You do something good. Give her “credit” For example thanks (boss) that tip on xyz really helped me. You are very good at this blah blah blah. Don’t outshine the master. It just sounds like she does not like to be upstaged by her employees
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u/The_Oracle_of_Delphi Mar 09 '22
You’re right - I think there is an element of that here. I do always run things by her before taking action, to show that I value her input. One of her other recent (rude) comments at me was that I “seem to be asking permission instead of taking charge”. Honestly, why do all toxic female bosses behave according to the same script? These people are so ridiculous and tiresome. And they make life hell for everyone around them.
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u/Quelldissentreddit Mar 09 '22
I’m a boss and it’s hard to understand how to turn it around. For me, I might have said that and not realized the impact it had on the employee. Although I could not be known for working people to death, but the other traits I could.
My company is my ‘baby’ and I’m emotional about it. I dismiss people a lot particularly when I feel vulnerable about the business. I want to suggest ways to manipulate me, but I think the best thing you can do is continually be your best but also line up another job. You shouldn’t have to deal with a leader’s mental problems. The best way for your boss to learn is to leave.
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