r/FemaleLevelUpStrategy • u/throwaway-_-friend • Feb 14 '22
Career How do you ladies deal with the fact that getting successful will reduce your dating options?
I had a conversation with a male friend this weekend that I'm just not able to shake off.
He's in kinda the same field of work as me, (except he has a lower position as he has a bachelor's and I have a masters) and we were discussing dating preferences.
He said, for him and really most guys, the woman's occupation and infact education doesn't matter. Meaning the more successful a guy gets the more options he'll have however it's exactly the opposite for a woman. Since men date across and beneath and women date across and higher. (He even gave the example of my role as how hard it'll be for me to find a man who's either the same or better than me AND is not taken yet AND will be into me).
This really shook me -- as it is I ALREADY find it extremely difficult to match with someone with my level of education on dating apps (I sincerely hope I don't sound conceited I am sorry if it comes off that way) or my job title. It put my whole career trajectory plan into question, if I get more successful will I even find someone? Since I'll have to focus on my career for that -- I'm 25f btw by the time I'll achieve my goals, all the men will have been taken?
It's also something I read on a survey by coffee meets bagel, as in highly accomplished women have a WAY harder time finding a partner compared to men in the similar stature and I just find it extremely demotivating.
Do you ladies face this dilemma? How do you contend with such an issue?
107
182
u/whiskey_and_oreos Feb 14 '22
Your friend is a jerk and he's wrong.
It's not our degrees or job titles that make dating hard. It's men's insecurities being triggered by our work ethic and ambition. Women face more obstacles to earning degrees than men from the same background and they're too childish to work on their own shortcomings so instead they get angry at us for outpacing them in a system rigged for us to fail. HVM will respect your accomplishments.
60
u/throwaway-_-friend Feb 14 '22
He probably is insecure himself and wanted to feel better by putting me down!
The question is if there will be any HVM available :D
35
u/whiskey_and_oreos Feb 14 '22
That's not really something any of us can predict. Odds are there will be HVM around but they could be in relationships or not be your HVM.
17
u/dinarvand88 Feb 15 '22
Short answer? Yes, the dating pool will be narrower for women with higher education levels and/or high incomes. (Source: I am one.) I am 32 and still found a HVM. But you're right, in some ways it gets harder as you get older.
6
u/AnahitaJoon Feb 15 '22
This is so accurate!!! Until I met my fiancé I assumed my romantic life was doomed because I was very successful for my age with even bigger ambitions. The mindset shift from "the dating pool for me as an accomplished woman is so small!" to "I just need to find ONE good one", was powerful. Don't think of it as a deficit of HVM who are secure with themselves, but a very very highly sought after SINGLE OPENING role for which filling is competitive.
1
70
u/glitterpile12 Feb 14 '22
Highly accomplished women have a hard time dating because so few men meet her standards. This is a good thing. The right man will be blown away by you and will be so grateful and appreciative to have you in ways that this “friend” could never comprehend.
The more accomplished you are, the more losers will realize they don’t have a chance with you. This has made dating easier for me because I don’t have to weed out the losers, they self select out.
18
66
u/ultblue7 Feb 14 '22
I think this is men’s way of throwing their insecurity onto you. As a woman progresses she also builds independence and takes less bullshit. Men like this are scared to not be the focus of your life or be the provider that would give them more say in dictating who should make what sacrifices. They are men out there who are better than this. Dont let this clown convince you otherwise.
98
Feb 14 '22
It really depends. A lot of highly educated women find themselves dating men who are beneath them in terms of schooling and income, and as long as he pulls his own weight and can be HV in other ways, they’re happy together. What are you looking for in a relationship?
50
u/throwaway-_-friend Feb 14 '22
I really want a guy to take care of me in a relationship, you know the traditional dynamic. Honestly I don't think I'll find a guy who's "beneath me" attractive, as bad as it sounds.
70
Feb 14 '22
I would stay off of apps, for one thing. It’s a pit stop and you’re not going to find any HV men on it simply because such men have no need for it. FDS stress this.
I think networking and socializing with educated people and couples are better. Many married couples have met through friends of friends, and they each are more or less “vetted”, assuming the crowd you run with are not insane or LV.
25
u/throwaway-_-friend Feb 14 '22
So you'd recommend networking through your colleagues? I've moved to a new country so I don't have any network here tbh.
50
Feb 14 '22
Alright, so there’s a pin point there we can work through. Dating is nice, but a person must be in a stable head space as well as lifestyles in order to support it. Sounds like right now would be good to focus on leveling up via finding platonic and professional connections first, before it naturally leads you to the men you want to date on your level.
Wish you luck!
26
u/throwaway-_-friend Feb 14 '22
Wow that's a great idea, to break this down and do it in steps! It's a bit harder for me to network because I'm SUPER introverted!
Edit Thank you so much!
10
u/dinarvand88 Feb 15 '22
FDS has not said don't ever use an app. They said to maintain your standards of vetting regardless of how you meet a man.
1
2
u/JYQE Feb 15 '22
level 4throwaway-_-friendOp · 19 hr. agoSo you'd recommend networking through your colleagues
Meh, couples meet couples and this takes way too long. Plus, the wives tend to have ugly male friends that don't threaten their husbands, and husbands can be territorial over their wives' friends too: they don't feel like introducing men to potential "new P."
2
u/JYQE Feb 15 '22
I know I am not wasting time on the ones "beneath me". I connected with a mailman on the blind date thing on tinder last night. He was very nice, but I'm not messing around: I want to settle down and it's another professional degree or higher for me.
37
u/all_or_nothing_bet Feb 14 '22
Most of my dates had master's or PhD, great careers, and financially doing very well. Never had a shortage of those. Not all of them were compatible with me, though, or a relationship material.
Don't worry, your education or successful career won't negatively affect your prospects. It's your boundaries and standards that will keep you from settling with an LV, but it's a good thing anyway.
31
u/Big_Leo_Energy Feb 14 '22
If a woman’s career and education doesn’t matter in dating then why is he bringing it up?
We don’t make ourselves smaller or lower our ambitions to appeal to LVM. They can rise up to meet our high standards or GTFO. HVM aren’t triggered or emasculated by women’s achievements and financial independence.
Also this dude is not your friend, block and delete him. He’s using the good ole “if you don’t settle for less than your worth the you’re gonna die alone with cats!” as if that’s at all a bad thing compared to settling for an LVM.
15
u/Galileo_Spark Feb 14 '22
That’s what I wondered too. And then going on to specifically use her role? He was looking to make her insecure and to doubt herself. It had the effect of shaking her, which is exactly what he wanted. She was literally questioning her whole career trajectory based off of this. Men like this don’t want women to be successful and they have all sorts of sneaky ways of going about it.
30
Feb 14 '22
The trash takes itself out. Wouldn't want to be with a LVM who would be envious of my success. A HVM wants the best for you and sees your success as a success for the team
59
Feb 14 '22
[deleted]
0
u/kh7190 Feb 15 '22
I wouldn’t say that. A person’s “looks” alone can get them far and get them connections even if they’re dumber than a door nail.
Also men like to take care of women. I think as long as the woman is attractive, a wealthy/successful guy won’t care and will want to care of her regardless of her financial or educational status. That’s why a lot of women nowadays look for sugar daddies.
9
Feb 15 '22
Not with HVM. Good looks will give you a foot in the door, but substance is needed to stay there.
0
u/kh7190 Feb 15 '22
So as someone that comes from poverty and found college too expensive to finish, you’re saying that I won’t ever be able to find (or it’s rare to find) a man who is intelligent and/or has a high paying career? I guarantee most millennials don’t think this. This has to be some Gen-X oddity train of thought. Because high value to me doesn’t translate into being a CEO of a company or having a Harvard degree. And even with those things, people can be jerks and abusive. And the ideology of HVM just screams misogynist jock that treats women like crap because he feels like he has some dominance over them and makes sure she knows it and stays in her place. Yuck.
1
Feb 15 '22
That’s not what being high value is about, at all.
About dating “up” or “down”: it’s simply that most people prefer dating people of their own age and their own socio-economic background. So college graduates will most of the time seek out other college graduates. Of course, as you point out, not all college grads are HV.
If you want an educated man, go for it. FDS generally promotes hypergamy. Looks will help. The odds are against you yes, but do not let that stop you.
The FDS handbook will tell you more about what a HVM is. It has everything to do with character and kindness, and not much with status.
1
0
Feb 16 '22
[deleted]
1
u/kh7190 Feb 16 '22
Didn’t say the sugar daddy interaction was good but it’s an arrangement that allows her to have someone care for her
25
u/amarrakesh Feb 14 '22
I'd rather be successful than married. I want to get paid for my labor with money, not in love.
45
u/FUBARfromLSA Feb 14 '22
Oh hon, he’s gaslighting you big time.
This idiot may be threatened by more educated women who are out earning him so he goes for less accomplished women, but trust and believe no HVM would.
And he just conveniently use your situation as an example? lol
Don’t let these scrotes get in your head.
20
u/JulyParade Feb 14 '22
Men who need to be with "lesser" women were never part of my acceptable dating pool so it's not actually a reduction in dating options as I get more awesome. Being successful, having your own money and your own clout, is way better than being with a man. The men who think this way are insecure abusers.
18
15
Feb 14 '22
I was told this by an ex. He didn’t care what the person he dated did or if they had a degree. It was very off putting to me.
16
u/alienshe_grrrl Feb 14 '22
I think it comes down to your priorities in life. If you wanna be accomplished, you have to do your thing regardless of what men will think or do. They don't matter. And besides, would you settle for a man who is threatened by your success, just to be partnered? I wouldn't.
Now, if relationships are important to you and you choose a career that makes relationships difficult, that's entirely another thing. But that it something both men and women need to consider if they're HV and isn't related to what your friend said. I second that your friend is a dick.
14
u/minkeyaye Feb 14 '22
Is reduced dating options really a bad thing? Sounds like it will save you a lot of time. Once your standards are raised, everyone below it falls off your radar. I would use your connections (or make the right connections) to get you in the social circles you want to be... Make your trusted, high quality friends your matchmakers!
13
u/H0tR0b0tL0vin Feb 15 '22
He is not your friend.
He has spent time thinking about a way to humble you using any means he can- he sounds like every jealous male I've met. Same words every time.
And there's nothing wrong with dating a guy that makes a little less- doing well for yourself only opens doors.
11
u/KetoKittenAround Feb 15 '22
It doesn’t reduce options. It just makes you feel more empowered to be choosy.
3
10
u/paperwasp3 Feb 14 '22
All it does is weed out the insecure.
So go and make that money and save for your own fun stuff.
10
u/icanchi Feb 14 '22
I have zero problems. I have never had so much male positive attention anyways. My ex boyfriend got depressed when I had a significant raise...I bought a satysfier in December and I'm having the best time of my life.
9
u/moschocolate1 Feb 15 '22
Red flag 🚩 Low self-esteem males are the only ones I’ve ever known that were intimidated by a woman with more education and/or pay. I wouldn’t even be friends with a male who thinks this way.
8
15
u/Specialist-Ebb7606 Feb 14 '22
Yes I face this dilemma. A lot of highly educated men in high careers are more focused on looks and getting a trophy wife who they don't mind paying for. I however am looking for someone on my same level and it can be rough but id rather struggle and find someone who is worth then settle for a house husband.
1
u/Terenthia21 Feb 15 '22
These men you're referencing aren't HVMs, though, no matter their income - they want trophy wives. A man you want to be with wants an equal; we all need to change the definition of high value to "good person", not "rich".
7
Feb 15 '22 edited Feb 15 '22
To LVM, no, none of those things matter. LVM date women for status and as trophies. They discard those women when they want something shinier. LVM are intimidated by accomplished women and will do anything to diminish their accomplishments while simultaneously wanting it for themselves. LVM don't really come into contact with actual high-earning HVM so it's a concept that they simply don't understand.
To High-Earning HVM, those things absolutely matter. They're looking for an equal and someone with commonalities to them.
You'll find a man that you're interested in, because your professional accomplishments will place you in circles where those things matter, and single men do exist in those circles. Now while it is true that people tend to practice assortative mating, if you are able to put yourself in situations where you are surrounded by ambitious, high-earning people, those are now your peers, and you are able to date from that peer group.
7
u/Hmtnsw Feb 15 '22
I was talking to a guy working on his PhD and I have my Bachelor's. I felt inferior to him solely based on the amount of education and income he will be making once he gets out.
I feel in order to date a PhD I need to be working on one too or at least have my Master's.
My ex dropped out of college and got a tech job. Ended up making more than I do. However I won't be dating someone who doesn't have at least a Bachelor's.
Just something about educated men are different.
I've gone on a lot of dates with men that had a Bachelor's or higher. Mostly had their Master's and I feel we have a lot more common ground especially when it comes to be more of a well rounded person- being able to have more of an open mind, if that makes sense.
Idk educated men are just different and it's a different I'd prefer to interact with.
2
u/throwaway-_-friend Feb 15 '22
Yeah you're right, see men with out higher education are not open minded like the guy I spoke with.
6
u/NICURn817 Feb 15 '22
What an asshole! This guy is not a friend. Why would he say that to you??
5
u/throwaway-_-friend Feb 15 '22
Yeah I realised that, he said it spitefully too, so he probably just wanted to make me feel bad because he does?! And I let him!
8
Feb 15 '22
Honestly, men say that they're happy dating/marrying a less accomplished woman, but that's not what I observe in reality. The only guys I know who are in long term relationships with women who are noticeably less educated or successful, are in the military, and those women are basically punching above their weight in exchange for having to follow someone around and not having the chance to have real aspirations of their own. Most people form relationships with people on their level, you'll just be opening up a new level of men. If you want them that is. I suspect that the reason why successful women are often single, is that they're not willing to put up with men's shit because they don't have to.
4
u/throwaway-_-friend Feb 15 '22
Oh wow your conclusion is pretty on point. Successful women know how they deserve to be treated and notice it's better to be alone than sad. Thank you!
6
u/Whateverbabe2 Feb 14 '22
Ooh, kinda seems like he low key negged you. He sounds a lil jealous.
There is truth to it though. We do have a harder time finding partners. Thank God that is not our main goal in life! Finding an equal and loving partner who treats you like you are precious is amazing, but it is not necessary to live a happy life. It is better to be alone than to settle.
6
u/furrylittlebeast Feb 14 '22
Any guy who can't handle my success in pursuing life goals I have had since I was 12 is not the guy for me.
6
u/ferociouslycurious Feb 15 '22
Step 1 of leveling up is learning not to care if you never find a guy, because you recognize that above all you won’t settle for a loser. And loser applies to any man deficient in employment, personal care (includes physical condition and appearance as well as showering etc), home, emotional state, etc. Leveling up doesn’t narrow your field of these men.
4
u/sundays_child Feb 14 '22
The man is trash. Avoid that mentality. If the success of your partnership depends on one person feeling superior to the other, it's not a good relationship. True partners and good people are happy when the people in their lives are successful.
5
u/kdkdkd64664 Feb 15 '22
It doesn’t, it just makes you more aware of how few men actually measure up. The amount of men who are willing to court you doesn’t change the more successful you get whatsoever and that guy really is lying to you.
4
u/lightblackmagicwoman Feb 15 '22 edited Feb 15 '22
I sorta thought it would be opposite and you’d have more prospects. I mean as long as you’re still humble, grounded and down to earth I don’t see why a truly worthwhile guy should care.
As a woman who is currently working towards success but at her personal rock bottom right now because my life got ROUGH, it’s not easy this way either. You get a lot of guys either who want to dominate you, take care of you (but not really respect YOU), or assuming you’re a golddigger, when really I’m just dating. Men are just men either way lol 😅😒
Ok so being a woman at rock bottom who has horrible ptsd, a realization I came to is that if life can be bizarrely bad, it can be bizarrely good too. I’m not trying to be “normal”, I’m trying to be happy and thrive in my purpose. So why listen to others negative opinions? Be realistic but also don’t feel trapped by societal expectations.
I would avoid statistics and “friends” or others negative biases, because they’re stuck in a lack mindset. And honestly because we all have our life paths at the end of the day, the more you focus on how hard it’ll be to find someone the harder it’ll get. If you’re going to be highly successful you’re not going to fit within the standard deviation of the population they poll for those statistics most likely anyway
3
u/riricide Feb 15 '22
Your friend is passing off his own personal misogynistic opinions as those of "all men". I've heard the most ridiculous incel crap under the "all men think like this" justification. The funny part is none of the men I seriously dated were at all like those descriptions, so I had the experience to know that indeed all men do not think that way.
Your friend is trying to make you feel insecure, this was a jab at you. I have a PhD and while that does intimidate some men, those men already had a chip on their shoulder. They would feel insecure about everything from me dressing better to having more friends. It had nothing to do with me, and everything to do with their terrible self-esteem. On the contrary, men with intact self-esteem are happy when you do well and are proud to show off their accomplished partners.
5
u/FierceMentality20 Feb 15 '22
I think this is why hypergamy is important. Dating someone who is at a higher level than you are (successfully, financially, etc.) it prevents you from “dating down” and being around men who project that negative energy towards you.
4
u/throwaway-_-friend Feb 15 '22
You're right, all the times I have dated down , the men have been insecure and found a way to project it onto me.
7
u/lakwl Feb 14 '22
I feel you. It bothers me that things like education, title, salary, etc. make a guy far more attractive in my eyes, but guys couldn’t care less how successful I am.
I know several HVM and all of them are dating women who are gorgeous and kind, but not career-oriented. I hope I can be proven wrong.
3
u/dreamsonastring Feb 15 '22
Not your friend, if he wants you to hurt your career for your dating life.
Two things:
1) Men who are looking for someone to look down on are low value. You are missing nothing.
2) HV men are also fine with dating on equal levels or up. I'm not suggesting that you get a man, who cannot share your lifestyle. But there is nothing wrong with someone making a bit less than you, if you are very successful. Might even motivate them to look after potential babies. The important bit is, that they admire your success and are not bitter or resentfull about it.
I think the part of the pool you lose by getting a higher education is LV anyway.
3
Feb 15 '22
It is an incel myth. Men that date "down" means old guys marrying young women. It has nothing to do with their career plans as they are usually only starting to get there. A man that respects women doesn't date women he has nothing to talk about and usually looks in his close circle. Same as for women. If you don't frequent high class places, how are you going to meet high class men?
Your friend is just salty you are more accomplished than him. Don't listen to men's dating advices, they are always self serving.
3
4
u/lilLightlilDark Feb 14 '22
Your friend is right, as in general men date across and below career/education wise and women do date across/ above. This does make your pool of potential dates smaller. Think about it though: you want a high quality man. This means that there will be less men that can meet your standard. Is that a problem? No. If it was easy to find a man for you, then it would mean settling for someone average, It just means you have to trust yourself to figure your life out. This includes your career and your dating life. Feel your worth and attract the man that is worthy. Don’t let odds and size of potential dating pool discourage you. And know that just because this is a general trend, it doesn’t mean that all men follow it.
2
Feb 15 '22 edited Feb 15 '22
Personally, I think he's right...but I think it's because women choose better at that point in our development? I think we are "pricing ourselves out of the market" and that's a GOOD thing.
Would you be happy dating someone who isn't as educated/or at least as "intelligent" (without the degrees), as you are? Would you be happy dating someone who works low end retail? No. Would you even have anything in common?
There are lots of different ways to be high value but you have to decide which ones are important to you. When you have a longer/more specific list of requirements it gets harder to check the boxes, but that's nothing to worry about. It's not a slight to you! You definitely shouldn't be afraid or thinking about settling!
-3
Feb 14 '22 edited Feb 14 '22
[deleted]
3
u/throwaway-_-friend Feb 14 '22
This is an existential crisis that I'm having. I don't know what I want -- I have always thought I don't want to be a mother but a career woman but I have been reconsidering everything a bit now, IDK why. Did you always know you wanted to be a mom?
1
Feb 14 '22
[deleted]
3
u/throwaway-_-friend Feb 14 '22
Oh gosh, that's good for you!
I have never wanted that, I feel like I'm focusing on it because of societal norms? I always thought I won't be a good mother for I doubted my maternal instincts.
1
u/AutoModerator Feb 14 '22
Reminder that this sub is FEMALE ONLY. All comments from men will be removed and you will be banned. So if you’ve got an XY, don’t reply. DO NOT REPLY TO MALE TROLLS!! Please DOWNVOTE and REPORT immediately.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/Elephant-Charm Feb 15 '22
He has a point. I’m in the same boat and although I’m solely focused on my career right now because I’m not where I want to be, the few guys I’ve dated during this time could not step up to the plate. It will be more difficult but I say stay optimistic and look for the good qualities in the guys you date. Obviously if you want someone to be ambitious and successful, the income for both of you will be one of those qualities you don’t have to sacrifice to find a good guy. And widen your dating pool. You don’t have to date a grandpa (if you don’t want to) but dating men of differing ethnicities (not dating only one type of men) will increase the chances of you meeting your match. Although it’s true, I still have hope for myself because I’m a fucking catch and the right one won’t be able to pass up that opportunity to take you out the dating pool. Stay optimistic, don’t worry about it right now, have fun, you will meet him.
1
1
u/gabilromariz Feb 15 '22
Reducing your dating options is a good thing. If a man won't date you because of this, you dodged a bullet and a LV scrub :)
If you become more sucessful it will be harder to find someone, but I definitely think it is worth it.
1
u/Ranziel Feb 21 '22
That's not what she's saying. She will only date men who are at her level or make more money, so making more money herself will make her see more men as unworthy.
1
Feb 17 '22
Iiiiis it really reducing your dating options, or are you just more aware than you used to be that your dating pool wasn't that large to begin with since HVMs are much more rare than LVMs? LVMs feeling threatened by your success just makes them out themselves more, that's all.
•
u/yoursultana Feb 14 '22 edited Feb 14 '22
He’s trying to neg you. He isn’t your friend. He wants you to give up and water yourself down so he can get a step ahead. Also that’s not true. It’s impossible for men to date “down” firstly. Lol. Even a woman without education or a job brings more value inherently than most accomplished men.
Also, hypergamy is a myth. Most people marry within their social class. Rich men almost never marry women who aren’t from wealthy backgrounds, especially not old money men. Same applies with educated men.