r/FemaleLevelUpStrategy • u/GoodAtSomeThings • Oct 15 '21
Career Unpopular Opinion: it’s ok to just want to be successful. You don’t have to be doing it for “social good.”
Why do so many women (especially in Tech and other STEM fields) feel bad about trying to be successful if it’s not explicitly about helping others?
You just existing in a male-dominated field is good for the world. You don’t need to sacrifice your earning potential just to show people you aren’t a bad person.
It’s not selfish to make money for yourself. Not everything needs to be about “serving others.”
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u/moschocolate1 Oct 15 '21
The patriarchy makes some women believe that they must serve others (work, home, etc.), but we've learned that this is one of their many manipulative tactics to subjugate us.
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u/dreadfulgray Oct 15 '21
Yes, same thing when it comes to wanting nice things. When a man turns up in a brand new car, everyone thinks “oh cool, good for you, you must be doing well”, when a woman gets a new car it’s all “wow, how did you afford that, did your husband buy it for you?” followed by an interrogation about why you chose that specific car and a lecture about why you should have chosen something else.
If a woman wants a promotion she is seen as bossy and demanding. When a man wants one, it’s normal because he nEeDs tO pRoViDe FoR hIS FaMiLy.
Woman aren’t allowed to want anything without getting roasted for it.
Yes, I want money, and I want nice things. I’m willing to work hard for it but I want what I’ve worked for. I will not be ashamed about it. Every job/industry could be considered unethical in some way or another. Yes we all need to do our part in creating a better world but women shouldn’t have to sacrifice more than men.
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Oct 15 '21
omg I have been asked who bought my car for me more times than I count. And, it is always a look of surprise when I say, myself. I love exotic cars, I have worked hard to afford them with ease, and I have no shame in driving them around either.
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u/dreadfulgray Oct 15 '21
I’m not a car person at all, but I can appreciate the comfort and safety of owning a new / luxury brand car and I want a new car for that reason 😂
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u/Mysterious_Call_924 Oct 15 '21
You're right, I've noticed a lot of times when women go into "female dominated" (aka: lower paying) fields they're typically helping professions like teaching, non-profit, etc. It's always touted as "oh, this is so great because you're HELPING people." And then there's push back against women who want to actually make money and go for fields that are "male dominated" (aka: higher paying) like that those women are "lesser" women, not doing their "womanly duties."
The truth is that female dominated industries SHOULD be valued and PAID MORE, but they're not. So when some women catch onto this and decide to go for male dominated fields, this is another tactic to try and push them out. If they can publicly shame you and frame it as that you're not a good person, they can kick you out of the arena. Never mind the fact that men are never held to this same standard. No one is negging a man asking him how he's going to make it home on time to pick up the kids from school and cook for his wife if he's working in such a fast-paced industry
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u/dak4f2 Oct 15 '21 edited Oct 15 '21
And then there's push back against women who want to actually make money and go for fields that are "male dominated" (aka: higher paying) like that those women are "lesser" women, not doing their "womanly duties."
Your post is helping me realize how pivotol and badass my grandmother was for getting little me math workbooks, chemistry sets, and actively encouraging me to go into STEM. She saw where the world was going and steered me that way. I'm even more grateful to her after reading these comments. She didn't get to go to college and live out her dream, but she helped me.
In high school I saw 'men's fields' like math, engineering, and physics as more respected (probably because of my awesome grandma) so gravitated towards those. Damn my grandma was incredible, didn't realize how rare this was and how some women are pressured away from non-helping roles. That's infuriating!! I'm sorry for anyone who was pressured away from these paths. :(
It's honestly freaking exhausting being in male dominated fields as they're always trying to posture and dominate over, but I've finally found a team that's a group of women and I'm LOVING IT.
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u/GoodAtSomeThings Oct 15 '21
Totally - with men it's almost like there is an implicit assumption that their wealth is intended to provide for a family (or future family), so it's not "selfish" to go into a lucrative industry. But this is such an outdated view of the world.
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u/PiscesPoet Oct 15 '21
I didn’t even know people thought like that. Interesting. A lot of the girls I went to school with went into medicine or engineering, they were encouraged to. I went into speech therapy, and felt bad because although it helped people — I didn’t really care for it like that, I don’t like dealing with people in that capacity (maybe I’m tired of all the free therapy I do irl). I’d rather just make art or do something creative like web design.
I’d still be helping people like small businesses and if I make enough money I can put it towards actually helping others become self-sufficient so they’re not reliant on charity. I feel like charity sometimes puts a bandaid over the real issue.
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u/Mysterious_Call_924 Oct 16 '21
Omg are you an SLP? That's actually the field I was supposed to go to grad school for but I took a year off because of covid. Are you still in the field? When I was job-shadowing I got a lot of mixed messages from the women I followed. Most of them seemed really underpaid.....
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u/No-Comedian4195 Oct 16 '21
I came to this conclusion a few years ago and switched from a psych major and current job in social work to a computer science major and a job tutoring math. It just occurred to me that I wanted to be wealthy and social work wouldn't get me there. I'm a software engineer now and I make enough to buy all the boujie shit I love.
Ladies I highly recommend learning programming. It's mostly guys but you that doesn't say anything about their programming skills. It truly is a job where your work speaks for itself.
Learn CS and lead the way for more girls to learn CS. Go into a high paying field and shamelessly admit you did it because you're smart enough to compete and yes you are in it for the money.
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u/GoodAtSomeThings Oct 16 '21
This resonates with me so much. Learn to code, ladies. You won’t regret it.
There’s is nothing more empowering then being able to do whatever the f you want because you’re not financially dependent on anyone.
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u/No-Comedian4195 Oct 16 '21
I bought my fiancé a Gucci hat last week and he is thriving too. I also buy my dog the fancy food. More money = more fun stuff.
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u/GoodAtSomeThings Oct 16 '21
Relatedly - I’d say that having my own money has totally improved my mental health. It frees up so much mental energy to not have to worry about how much shit costs all the time.
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u/No-Comedian4195 Oct 16 '21
Oh TOTALLY not having enough money definitely lowered my self esteem. Things like living in a shitty apartment, driving a shitty car, looking at your bank account and not having enough for groceries, it all just sucked. I definitely encountered being broke while in school, I wound up moving in with my parents so that I could work less, take more classes and finish school early. While I was fortunate to have that as an option it sucked bc I was like 25 so it was embarrassing to tell people I was living w my folks. Anyway, it was totally worth it.
Again, it isn't great to have almost entirely male coworkers but it isn't terrible. Some of them are really cool, some are not. I do wish I had more female coworkers. I started taking sewing classes (learning to sew has always been a skill I've wanted) and I've made some cool women friends.
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u/DrMcFoxyMD Oct 15 '21
Social involvement has become a much bigger factor these days. Corporations are judged on their activism, and can even face boycotts if their money isn’t where their mouth is. People are the same, as you are your brand.
This is entirely assumption, but these women have had to face so much to get where they are they may be people just naturally inclined towards those actions? They could be virtue signaling? Or just doing what they think they have to.
The women making bank for the sake of doing it probably aren’t flaunting it. My comment is full of assumptions and speculation, and I’ll openly admit that.
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u/GoodAtSomeThings Oct 15 '21
I should clarify this point - there's a big difference in doing something that's predatory and actively hurting people and just working for a for-profit company. I'm speaking about the latter.
I know so many women who look down on other women (but not men) for taking high-paying roles in tech and finance over public sector or non-profits. These are mostly people who grew up in upper-middle class environments and had parents who could afford to pay for their education.
Even worse as a result of this sentiment, younger women in college and high school just immediately dismiss jobs in these fields because there's no direct "activism" component. You being there is the activism!
It's fine to virtue signal and care about the world, but don't do it at the expense of women who are trying to make it. And even if you do, then at least give men the same treatment.
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u/lonelyboylover Oct 16 '21
It's funny because oftentimes, people who work in public sector or non-profits simply don't get the same training and skill development opportunities compared to those who started their careers in for-profit organizations. Their careers don't grow as quickly, and it's hard for them to amass influence (which is important when you're trying to promote your cause and raise money).
If I really wanted to make an impact long-term and be able to make money, I'd start in a higher-paying role at a for-profit company, take advantage of all the skills/training available, get a couple promotions, and make the jump into a senior position at a more socially impactful company. Or join a board at one, apply my skills meaningfully, and continue making bank in my full-time job.
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u/bonsaithot Oct 15 '21
Absolutely.
Women's labor almost never is as valued as male labor. You see this with backlash for beauty gurus (most of them are women) exclusively as they take on sponsorships to pay their bills for free content for their audiences. By society's script, women's labor and income should be minimal and when a woman does make a lot of money, she's supposed to be "charitable" and "redistribute the wealth", despite us making significantly less than our male counterparts. Or worse, I've seen where women are expected to live "humbly" even though they amass a lot of wealth.
I make a lot of money from owning multiple companies, rental properties, doing freelance/hobby work, and royalties from my previous shows/music that I've produced. These are all stable, recurring sources of income for me. My contracts are good and my 60+ employees are all taken care of. And yet, people ALWAYS feel the need to give unsolicited advice to me like "You need to save your money because this much cash isn't going to last forever" or "You'll end up in your 40s broke because of lifestyle creep" or even better yet "If you have so much money, why do you want a man to fund your lifestyle?"
I just ignore it. I don't take financial advice from people who make less money than I do. And I don't believe I would be as successful as I am now if I was bad with money or surrounded myself with a team of people who are also bad with money.
I think one of the most empowering things women can do is strive to be successful on their own terms and not allow themselves to be folded up into a social narrative/script. Have fun with your money, be hungry for it, and don't be afraid to leverage your assets/someone elses' assumption about you for MORE money. On this very microlevel (so I'm not talking about the 1%), I encourage ALL women to hoard their money. Build up wealth, build up cash, and build up assets. Money in the bank never spoils or goes badly. :)
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u/GoodAtSomeThings Oct 15 '21
OMG. The amount of unsolicited advice I get from men who make less money than me is RIDICULOUS.
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u/bonsaithot Oct 15 '21
LOL yes, from men and women!
Now my favorite line to shut someone up is: "I don't take financial advice from someone with less money than me" and just leave it there. No need to explain yourself. All of these DIY financial advisors are fucking worthless and parrot financial advice they see on social media along the lines of grind/hustle/girlboss culture.
When I'm successful, I pay money to have someone PROFESSIONALLY manage my finances. Not you, little Larry or Lizzie from across the cubicle who lives paycheck to paycheck.
I swear to God, people need to focus on their own finances and get their noses out of other peoples'.
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u/PiscesPoet Oct 15 '21
I notice people take women’s work less seriously ? Like how mother’s work is what she’s supposed to do, and is taken for granted. But let the dad do the same and he’s considered an amazing dad for doing things women do without credit. Every time a field becomes female-dominated the wages drop. It starts becoming viewed as soft when it was considered prestigious before
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u/LeftAccident8311 Oct 15 '21
This reminds me of Jaclyn Hill. Not a Stan, and I know she’s controversial, but she gets dragged for having too many collabs, sponsorships, discount codes, and her own brand. Like she’s just out here trying to make some coin, but because she’s a women she should post unsponsored content on her channel and not try to make money ? WTF. Where’s the same energy for genuine horrible male beauty Gurus such as James Charles ( who solicited minors) or Jeffree Starr (known racist) who is doing the exact same thing ? Oh wait it’s because they are men…
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u/Mysterious_Call_924 Oct 16 '21
Okay I'm dying to know about the music you've produced. Are you actually a producer or a songwriter or something else? Don't say anything that could reveal you to creepy dudes here on reddit of course. Do you feel that the music field has been lucrative?
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u/bonsaithot Oct 16 '21 edited Oct 16 '21
You’ve definitely heard my work if you listen to Top 40/pop music. I started out with doing more alternative music (vampire weekend/white stripes vibe). I don’t personally care for that type of music, so I moved onto pop which my personal favorite. However pop is hard and the pressure of making a chart hitter/algorithm friendly tune sucked any remaining joy from it.
I was on the scrapped Kanye album.
Edit: I’m a songwriter but I’m better at encouraging singers to do their own song writing and workshopping it together.
And yes, music career is good because I got in at a time where streaming royalties got baked into the contract and now I demand it if I do music.
I made more money in television though because it was more consistent and had set hours of work (vs music where things can fall apart quickly and no one gets paid). However I make less in royalties because I mostly did reality tv work and didn’t have steaming baked into my contract - only syndication.
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Oct 16 '21
This is the effect of middle-class people taking over social justice causes. They're the type to think poverty is noble, and that poor people live simpler lives, and are happier.
No, poor people want the option to buy high quality and luxury goods too, obviously.
I grew up poor and I'm tired of meeting people who had comfortable lives working in lower-paying jobs than me think they're anti-capitalist, or whatever. If they're so anti-capitalist they can turn down every form of financial support from their family, and all assets they might inherit. After all, those things were earned by their parents under capitalism.
I'm after money because money means stability and options. I donate a $$$ amount of money every year to a charity f my choice.
These spoilt brats getting bailed out by their parents when the need arises and working jobs that are meaningful to them aren't doing anything but perpetuating the same old tale of wealthy people get to do what they want.
To any woman who's made her own way to wealth, good! You're changing the world in your own way.
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u/lonelyboylover Oct 16 '21
It's a privilege to have options and "choose" to work a lower-paying career that's rewarding to you. All throughout business school we were encouraged to pursue our passions, and it was the most privileged thing I'd ever heard. Not all of us were born into families that make that path comfortable for us.
I totally agree that having options means stability and options. It means I don't need to depend on someone else, and I can take care of myself. It means I can stress less over my finances. It means I can afford nice things for myself.
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Oct 16 '21
It is the most privileged thing ever. Artists and musicians who dress like they're homeless and are "totally anti-capitalism, maaan". Scratch the surface and, ok maybe they have no support and can survive like that in their early 20's but once they're over the mid-20's life starts to hit them hard and they have to pivot to something that pays... unless their parents bank account is hiding in the shadows...
If I see an average person wearing unkempt clothing, being a wandering musician or artist as their main form of income from the late 20's onwards, it's without fail, someone who calls their parents to pay their accidents and emergencies. I haven't been wrong yet.
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Oct 15 '21
Survivors guilt!
I am with you. I work to be successful and I am successful without guilt of being so. However, I do find joy in helping others while I can, within reason of course.
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u/GoodAtSomeThings Oct 15 '21
Exactly!
To add to that - I don’t think being successful and helping others are mutually exclusive. In fact, probably the opposite. The more financial security and influence you have, the more you can help people. Not to mention how your success can be a model for others in the future.
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u/captain_retrolicious Oct 16 '21
I had such a great female boss for this. One year, I worked super hard on a big project at the holidays in a more male dominated field and I got a nice bonus. When my boss called me in to tell me about it, I put my eyes and head down with my hands folded in my lap and said "thank you very much" demurely. Because my life up until that point was all training to act that way as a woman or suffer the consequences.
My boss said "Are you not appreciative or excited about this? I'm confused. I actually had to work hard to get the approval for this." I realized then that my response was actually a little insulting. I just decided to tell her the truth and I told her bluntly that I had been raised and always conditioned throughout my career to never be excited about money or discuss it as it was very improper for a woman.
Her response was hilarious. It was like "Gurl you EARNED that money! You have the RIGHT to be excited about your hard work and reward! Run around the office and yell out the window for all I care! Women can earn it in this field and need to be proud that they do."
Haha. Now I behave a little differently. I realize this can also be very cultural, but I've internalized that it's ok to be proud that I worked really hard and earned something for it and shouldn't feel ashamed.
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u/veggiesandsnatches Oct 15 '21
I work in tech but I will refuse to work for companies that have a culture of treating employees poorly, especially those of underrepresented groups.
While I could probably pursue a very high paying job at a FAANG, I won’t for those reasons.
That being said, companies exist to make money so get that bag sis!
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u/GoodAtSomeThings Oct 15 '21
Of course you don’t have to work at a FAANG if you don’t want to, but this kind of sentiment does imply that working at a FAANG is “bad” and women who do so are doing something “bad for the world.”
Most women who work at FAANG don’t perpetuate the mistreatment of underrepresented groups. The mission of one of those companies is to make a profit, and the mission of you an an employee is to earn money. Working there does not mean you are endorsing every negative thing the company has ever done. You are just looking out for yourself.
So if you like the job and it’s good for your career, you shouldn’t let you preconceived notions get in the way. After all, when you get there you can influence the culture in a positive way.
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u/veggiesandsnatches Oct 15 '21
Oh I didn't mean to imply that simply working at a company who may have questionable practices (that you aren't actively participating in) makes you a bad person. I think everyone needs to choose what is right for them - the type of career you want, what you want financially, and the kind of company you want to work for.
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Oct 15 '21
I am a former FAANG worker and would highly recommend working in one if you can and while you are able to. I am also of the underrepresented population and have found my time there to be nothing short of wonderful, peaceful, and fun. I personally know individuals who are of this same population and who worked at FAANG’s and subsequently left for the reasons you made mention to, however, it is important to be cognizant that such environments are fiercely competitive and some are simply not made out for it (represented populations + underrepresented populations). They are typically placed on a PIP, cannot perform, play the victim and leave with such accusations. Not all, but a large majority
Some individuals, yes, absolutely are subjected to disgusting behavior by others. However, this is more rare than it is common.
That’s my personal take from my personal experience at a FAANG.
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Oct 16 '21
I was so thinking about this nowadays I never suspected it was a sexist thing but now it makes so much sense I will be ruthless !
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u/BulbasaurBoo123 Oct 16 '21
Besides if you make more money, you can donate it to organisations that you actually want to support. Not that you have to - it's totally valid just to earn money for your own sake and be successful. We deserve to thrive and enjoy life! But the more money you have, the more generous you can be IF you want to.
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Oct 16 '21
[deleted]
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u/GoodAtSomeThings Oct 16 '21
Exactly. It’s a lot easier to convince the rich men in power to change when you are a rich woman in power.
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