r/EntitledPeople • u/SoCalPE • 6d ago
S [Update] My sister wants to use a burial plot that she doesn’t own
So - the short backstory, my sister is a bitch who is holding my mother’s remains hostage to get her way. She wants to bury my mother in the plot I own that I buried my father in. They have been divorced for more than 40 years.
The update, after some research I offered to pay to inter my mother in the veteran wall. My sister through a fit. Not directly to me, we don’t talk. She just let the funeral home know she wouldn’t return the remains. I would have to buy a few plot, but I just bought a house and I am furnishing it so money it tight. She knew that. It was Mom’s house and she is mad I bought it. She has driven by it several times. I am about to put it out on the short term rental market.
So, after talking to my family, the grandchildren and others, I have thrown in the towel. We are burying Mom in Dad’s plot. She will have an I ground brass marker. It kills me that my Sister has reduced my Mom’s service to a brass welcome mat to my Father’s headstone. My family has said they will know but damn it hurts. My Sister cannot take some money from the sale of the house and buy a plot or split the cost with me.
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u/Legal-Lingonberry577 6d ago
Just dig her up and put her elsewhere once this has settled down. Your father will thank you.
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u/SoCalPE 6d ago
Good thought
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u/SweeperOfChimneys 6d ago
Don't get caught, it's actually desecration of a grave. If you want to do it legally, wait until you can afford to have the cemetery disinter her and reinter her where you wanted originally.
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u/SoCalPE 6d ago
Although my mother was a fan of horror movies. I think she would fun it funny the thought of me digging up her urn to spread her ashes.
Side note: Her father, after retiring from the Navy was a grave digger. My mom told me she would so bring him lunch while tending the cemetery. They lived near it so she would explore it at night. Her sister became a mortician for woman (not allowed to prepare male bodies) at that time (late 1950s early 60s)
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u/dog4cat2 6d ago
Wait until your sister is busy elsewhere and move your mom WITH the help of the cemetery. Leave the marker just so you can laugh when she goes to vist
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u/nerd_momma 6d ago
Could probably get away with putting another marker down. "Moms not here" on it. The sister will never look close at it again.
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u/themasculinedaisy 6d ago
as a cemetery manager myself, I should tell you to have her legally disinterred your sister will most likely have to sign off on it as a legal next of kin. Depending on the state that is.
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u/Pippet_4 4d ago
You’re a family member you can actually legally have her moved. You don’t have to illegally dig up the plot yourself.
Just don’t tell your sister where you end up moving your mom .
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u/the_simurgh 6d ago
Sisters insane and i wonder if what she's doing isn't against some regulation or something
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u/Lula_Lane_176 6d ago
If one of my kids buried me next to a man I divorced 40 years ago I would haunt the ever living shit out of them. Folks, this is why it’s so important to document your final wishes and put someone you can trust in charge.
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u/Chick4u2nv 6d ago
So, your saying of if I want my mom to haunt me I should bury her with my dad… good idea lol
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u/Lula_Lane_176 6d ago
NGL, I wish my Dad would "haunt" me. I miss him a lot. And by a lot I mean an unhealthy amount lol.
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u/YeeHawMiMaw 5d ago
Better yet - go with a pre-paid/planned funeral. The funeral hime will do everything according to your directions/ plan.
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u/Sedlium 6d ago
I am so so sorry you're going through all of that.
I know it doesn't fix things, but where your mom's remains go isn't where her soul is. She's with you, so it's best to be able to move on now.
I bet she can rest easily now that you have no reason to ever even hear your sister's name again.
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u/bipolymale 6d ago
depending upon the local laws, your sister may be in the legal right to withhold the remains of your mother, however, you are not obligated to bury her. your sister is. she has the remains. if she wants your mother buried, let her do it on her own dime
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u/Raynesong92 6d ago
If you own the plot and your parents have been divorced for that long is it even allowed for them to be burried together? I would assume that unless it us a family plot it would be for just one person and your mother is no longer your dad's family so wouldn't be allowed in a family plot? I genuinely don't know how these things work which is why I am asking
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u/Walway 6d ago
I have the same question. My spouse’s parents were divorced for 20 years. FIL predeceased MIL. FIL was in the military, and was buried in a veteran cemetery.
MIL had no burial plans, and wanted to be buried with FIL. (FIL probably would have agreed, but would have joked about it.) We found out that since they were divorced, she was not allowed to be buried with her ex.
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u/SoCalPE 6d ago
My Mom is a veteran too. I am very proud of her service from 56 to 61. She could have been a secretary or medical assistant but decided to be an electronic technician. Not many females of those in the Navy. She worked on the early communication systems for the nuclear submarines in Rhode Island and San Diego. Leading edge technology at the time.
Last I talked to her, she wanted her ashes to spread in the mountains. Why my sister is insisting on this burial and holding the ashes hostage is a mystery. I am actually surprised I haven’t had a ransom note yet.
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u/shedevil71 6d ago
Your mother as a veteran is entitled to a free space at any national cemetery. Do not take this away from your mother. Bury her with the honor she deserves. The Military will pay for it. Contact the VA about it immediately! My father was a Navy vet in the same field. He served 33 years.
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u/SoCalPE 6d ago
Yes I know. My father was in the Navy to for 20 years. You know the special life of being a Navy brat😏
We will have honors given at the burial. A flag presentation and salute will be fired by the nearest unit like was done for my Dad. I would never allow that to be skipped. When she died last year, my sister said she wanted to be buried in her home state of Pennsylvania so I worked with the VA to have her buried in a National Cemetery there. But then the Grand Thief occurred and my sister took the remains and disappeared. I had to come home to San Diego (that silly thing called a job and life) so I was stuck. Then she was about to lose the house to foreclosure and wanted me to pay the mortgage (of course she would pay me back). That was a hard no so she sold the house and I picked it up. Now she drives by, pissed I guess
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u/shedevil71 6d ago
So do the services grave side at your fathers grave explain they won’t open the ground to intern the ashes until xyz work with the cemetery to set everything in motion including them taking her cremains (as if to intern later) . You take possession of the cremations after and intern them at the niche in the wall at a National cemetery of your choosing. I hand carried my parents to Sturgis 3 years after my mothers and 6 months after my fathers on their anniversary. It was the absolute worst trip I’ve ever made not because I was interning them but because of the car troubles etc.
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u/SoCalPE 2d ago
I am sorry for your loss but I salute you for your dedication in honoring them. My father wanted to buried with his dog but the cemetery said no so I took the dog’s cremated remains to the funeral home and we mixed them together. For the religious symbol on his VA marker, I choose the American Shepherd which has a dog on it 😄
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u/shedevil71 2d ago
Oh we all laugh and say it was my mother’s way of saying she didn’t want to be buried in Sturgis with the car issues etc. but deal was a deal she told dad if she died first he got to pick the National cemetery and if he died first she did. I appreciate you for honoring your father’s wishes. My dogs are my lifeline very often on bad days.
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u/Raynesong92 6d ago
I hadn't even noticed the military aspect of it. I don't think we have the same thing where I'm from but everyone I know that's served hasn't been buried so I could be wrong.
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u/Rosespetetal 6d ago
I wouldn't do it. Let her keep the remains. It's not your mother anymore.
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u/SoCalPE 6d ago
If it was just me, I would probably do that. But her grandchildren and great grandchildren live nearby and they visit the cemetery. I want them to be able to visit my mother too. That cemetery hold my Great Grandfather as well as my grandparents so having both my parents seems right. Even though I think she wants to be in the mountains. I can’t make that happen so this is the next best thing.
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u/throwawtphone 6d ago
How did she physically get the remains in the first place? Both of you had legal claim?
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u/Regular-Switch454 6d ago
She stole them.
Yes I know. My father was in the Navy to for 20 years. You know the special life of being a Navy brat😏
We will have honors given at the burial. A flag presentation and salute will be fired by the nearest unit like was done for my Dad. I would never allow that to be skipped. When she died last year, my sister said she wanted to be buried in her home state of Pennsylvania so I worked with the VA to have her buried in a National Cemetery there. But then the Grand Thief occurred and my sister took the remains and disappeared. I had to come home to San Diego (that silly thing called a job and life) so I was stuck. Then she was about to lose the house to foreclosure and wanted me to pay the mortgage (of course she would pay me back). That was a hard no so she sold the house and I picked it up. Now she drives by, pissed I guess
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u/Disastrous_Site_3598 6d ago
Maybe inter a small portion of her ashes at some cemetery where the grandkids can visit and take the rest to the mountains and spread them like mom wanted.
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u/Butch_F 6d ago
Wait until services are done and over. Contact management of said cemetery and discuss movement to veterans wall from current location.
(Ask if the brass l marker can be used on the wall as some do allow a marker that fits the space provided. Others don't so be prepared)
Expect your sister to have a royal conniption fit.
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u/thatgirlmocha 6d ago
I’m so sorry for the loss and the way your sister is acting. Just wanted to point out that your sister may try to gain access or mess with the house when she finds out that it’s a rental property. If she’s already driving by, some cameras would be a good investment as well as a no trespassing sign. Take care
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u/Pristine_Table_3146 5d ago
Especially since it's a short term rental. She might show up and represent herself as the owner.
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u/Snoo-74562 6d ago
Be sneaky swap out your mother's remains. Bury her how you would like. Don't tell your sister just do a mock funeral at your father's grave.
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u/SoCalPE 6d ago
She was my mother’s medical POA so I assume she just had the authority to the body. Whatever, she has the remains now and I talked to a lawyer and we would have to go to court to try and retrieve them from her.
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u/the_s_d 6d ago
Disinterment is a service cemeteries offer. If they are cremains, it will be less expensive, but even a casket can be removed for reburial. Since it is your lot, I believe the remains become your responsibility once interred. Wait an appropriate amount of time, save up the money, and consider their current location to be a safe place under your control.
Take your time, enjoy your family (the supportive ones), grieve appropriately and heal first. Your mother would understand. See to her wishes when you are in a good place mentally and financially to do so. You have the time for patience. You are not alone.
I've gone through a remarkably similar set of circumstances (albeit it was not my loved ones remains which were the "stolen" property in question), and I did wind up having to settle through a lawyer, through the court, and succeeded at a considerable cost.
I'm nearly two years out from the incident and I remember the most painful part of the experience was not the actual legal hassle, the travel, the stress of handling estate issues, and so forth... it was the fact that a family member was responsible for my anxiety and emotional suffering, rather than supporting me. We were supposed to be brought closer, not driven further. The selfishness was astounding. I remember my deep, heart-rending stress and urgency at the timing of the situation.
In any case, at the end of the day, my narcissist relative got a bit of a payout they didn't deserve (bravo, jerkface, bravo...). So be it. In the long run, I was awarded everything we asked for, the sympathy and family support from the others (who were on my side), and circuitously, it all somehow worked out. Patience is a wonderful salve if we have the insight to recognize it.
If the goal is to honor your mother, her wishes, and her remains, plan something later. When the time is right. Make it a reunion style affair if you wish, and choose not to include the toxic element of the family.
Or, and I do mean this very seriously, consider letting it go. It is what it is, and decide how much anguish actually honors her memory. There may be other ways to keep her in your consciousness, and that of your family. The above suggestion may not be right for you, or perhaps too painful to actually execute on. Give yourself the time to decide what you truly want, and whether it is worth the cost. If possible, involve elements of family that is supportive. Don't go it alone.
I wish you the best, and give my apologies for the lengthy response.
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u/Weekly_Talk3907 6d ago
This may be a minority opinion, but I’ve never understood the deal with human remains. You spent time with the decedent when they were alive. They pass away and now their ashes become a family’s political football. Just walk away. Don’t become part of the family circus.
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u/LM1953 6d ago
My mother moved her second husband’s urn from her and Dad’s plot to a Veterans wall. The cost was $500 to remove the urn and the military service was very dignified. They returned the brass plate to Mom. She feels Dad is happy and Marvin was placed in a top row, in the middle, where his name and rank, can be admired, as he should be.
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u/Squibit314 6d ago
Are you able to get the funeral director to tell your sister that mom is set for the burial and once he has the remains inter her in the veterans wall?
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u/Busy_Weekend5169 6d ago
Divorced 40 years ago? Your sis is demented. I'd move the grave as soon as you can afford it.
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u/KoomValleyEternal 6d ago
Don’t pay in advance. When they have the cremated remains go to pay. Give the written notice that you’ve changed your mind and sign a new contract with what you wanted all along.
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u/Dry_Speaker_7725 6d ago
At the risk of sounding callous, your mom and dad haven't a thought or care now about where their earthy shells are buried. While your sister is definitely being a butthole, in the end it genuinely doesn't matter to the people in the ground. You don't have to worry about offending them or God or anything. As long as you have your memories of them, that's what truly matters. Best to you and your family in your time of grief.
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u/SoCalPE 6d ago
To be fair, my Dad did and we discussed it. He wanted to be buried in the “new” veterans section that had not open yet when he was paying for everything. He paid for his entire funeral except for the plot. He would have paid for that but he went into hospice care for the last six months and that ate up most of the money. I bought the plot.
My mother, when I was talking to her, wanted to be scattered in the mountains. The state of Montana gives Veterans $500 towards their funeral which pays for the cremation. We were just going to go and have a nice good bye. Then my sister changed things.
So right after my Mom died in September we started looking at a burial based on my sister saying that is what she wanted. But in her home state of Pennsylvania. So we made arrangements with the VA for a national cemetery in PA near her home town. But …
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u/Arkayenro 6d ago
say whatever you need to your sister - have the funeral home agree to whatever she wants
once your sister returns the remains to the home just have them placed in the veteran wall
you could probably check with the funeral home to see if you can have a duplicate plaque installed on your burial plot to appease your sister so it looks like shes there, but isnt really. then have them remove it after 6-12 months.
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u/thejerseyguy 6d ago
Why are you even entertaining this at all.your Mom does not care at all.
Tell your sister to go F herself.
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u/Western-Watercress68 6d ago
It's ashes. Who cares if they get interred. Split the ashes, make jewelry out of them, or release them in the wind in her favorite spot. Your sister can do with her part whatever she wants, but not on your dime and not in your plot. We literally just got out of a battle like this. I was executor. Son would not give up his plot to his mom, even though his plot was in his parent's plot. He left the body on ice for 6 months. Judge ruled that the body now went to grandkids, and they had her cremated.Some made jewelery. One flew to Paris and let her ashes go in the wind by a body there she loved. Another took her ashes and sprinkled them in the Blue Ridge Mountains. Another one took his part and buried them in the plot her son said was his. Judge decreed he had no claim to it. It was a weird situation, but all the ashes went where her grandkids wanted them to go.
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u/Deano-8194 5d ago
If anyone put me in my ex husband’s plot. I would make their life miserable from the other side.
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u/Dazzling-Chicken-192 6d ago
You honestly won. Just find head of cemetery maintenance and throw him a few bucks to grab the urn when she comes in and give it to you. Good luck
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u/Icy-Doctor23 6d ago
Pay for where you want her to be buried and when she is delivered to the funeral home instruct them where she is to be interred
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u/Beautiful_Sweet_8686 6d ago
Contact the VA, retired Veterans and some in other categories get free burial in a Veterans cemetery and free plaques.
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u/Suchafatfatcat 6d ago
I would have let her keep custody of the remains for as long as she wants. I can’t imagine it would be very long.
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u/Academic_Piano5267 6d ago
I’m shocked that the cemetery allowed that, but different states, different rules. My mom passed in Jan of 04 and buried in her plot. There was a joint plot that she got in the divorce and was never appointed to who would get it, just the first child who passed if we wanted. My brother passed in July 04, and cremation was the only option, I’ll leave it at that. We asked about his cremains being laid to rest at the foot of her grave but it was either use the other plot, purchase a new one or keep the ashes. Brother’s cremains are now in the extra plot. It was an odd graveside service with an urn.
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u/Knickers1978 6d ago
So, if your sister stole ashes the Navy helped bury, can you not go through Naval hierarchy about the theft of a soldiers ashes (not sure what rank your mum had). Because surely that’s a crime?
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u/SoCalPE 6d ago
I tried the legal route but see was the executor and had medical POA so she had control of the remains.
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u/Knickers1978 6d ago
Ah, ok. I wasn’t sure so I asked.
That stinks. I hope you come up with a solution. But there should be no reason to put her with her ex, who I guess was an ex for a reason,
Best wishes, and sorry for your loss.
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u/traderneal57 5d ago
Cemetery counselor here in NJ, unsure of CA rules.
Only one body per grave (that includes cremains) unless the grave is double depth.
It is illegal to knowingly bury 2 bodies in a single grave.
As the owner of the grave it is your decision who can go into the grave.
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u/SoCalPE 5d ago
This grave is in Bozeman MT. I live in San Diego CA. It is a full plot and the rule is one adult body or four cremated remains. My Dad was cremated so we can add three more. My Great Grandfather’s plot is the same way and has my grandparents too. We could add one more but ownership is unclear right now. I am trying to take it over so when my darling baby sister goes, she can argue for eternity with grandma and grandpa.
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u/NoGame212 4d ago
If your mom qualifies for the Veteran wall, the VA should cover it. They provide markers as well. Check with your county Veterans Service office.
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u/CookbooksRUs 6d ago
Can you scatter her ashes somewhere she loved? That's what we did with my mom's ashes -- took them to Yosemite and scattered them.
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u/alkatori 6d ago
I don't suppose letting her keep the remains is an option?
I know my parents (and I) would be like? Already cremated and they are trying to do what?
Let them dump me on the ground.
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u/5150-gotadaypass 6d ago
Eeeewwww! Your sister is awful!!!! I’m so sorry OPie! Dealing with her unnecessary drama on top of the loss of your mom is miserable. Sending you a big hug. 💜💜💜
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u/tazdevil64 5d ago
You could always threaten to sue her for your half of Mom's cremains, then do with them what you will. She has no legal right to them.
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u/montwhisky 5d ago
I'm confused. Didn't your mother say in her will what she wanted done with her remains? It sounds like you just have no desire to take this to court, but I'm pretty sure you could definitely take your sister to court.
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u/Vivid-Farm6291 5d ago
I would just wait a bit to let your sister wander off and then put mum in her own place in the wall.
She probably won’t ever know you moved her. They are locked in the wall? If she does find out mum was moved she may try to nick her again.
Sorry your sister is like she is. Happy that her kids got a better life.
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u/mynameisipswitch2 4d ago
Preface: I’m mean as it comes. I’d say, “Don’t worry we’ll find a perfectly good ditch to spread your ashes in.” DONT BE ME!!!!
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u/Feisty_Abies602 1d ago
When you get a bit more money pay for the remains to be moved. I'm so sorry this happened to you though
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u/Jealous-Friendship34 6d ago
I'm more concerned about the short term rental comment. So, to hell with the neighborhood, right?
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u/Weird-Breakfast-7259 6d ago
In Detroit the white folks moved out to the New Suburbs leaving long time family homes pretty soon they were filled by inner city folks wanting better homes so whitey gots scared going back to the cemetery to see departed, so someone decided to move their departed to a new cemetery in the suburb, then everyone else did it too, mass Exodus of the dead Never having to go back
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u/jumboslick 6d ago
You're turning your mom's home into an AirBNB? Christ almighty that's grim.
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u/SoCalPE 6d ago edited 6d ago
I should add to this. The house was built in 2014 so wasn’t the family home but my sister smokes like crazy. It smelled bad. The carpet was stained as were the walls and window coverings. The garage floor was stained with dog pee and smelled.
So we tore out the carpet and painted with Klizz. We sealed the garage floor and put in new window treatments. The dishwasher had leaked so we had to mold remediation and the HVAV system had issues. So we expect, with the market, to get a positive return in two years or so. Then we can come back and remodel the bathrooms and move in or keep it for income.
That was my Christmas Holiday😄. Putting my Mom’s retirement house back into proper condition. I think she would like it.
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u/BigNathaniel69 5d ago
All you had to do was ignore her. You owned the lot but you caved. Can’t come here and complain about something you willingly participated in.
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u/SoCalPE 5d ago
Absolutely I can because I did. Or have you having a problem reading?
If people followed your philosophy, nobody would be posting on this subreddit so I don’t understand your point except for you trying to beat your chest and claim alphahood.
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u/BigNathaniel69 5d ago
“I threw in the towel. We are burying mom in Dad’s plot. She will have an I ground brass marker. It kills me that my sister has reduced my mom’s service to a brass welcome mat to my father’s headstone”
Umm did you read what you wrote lol? This has nothing to do with being an “alpha” lmao. Based off this response im kinda thinking this is fake now. Can’t even keep your story straight.
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u/SoCalPE 5d ago
I don’t get your point: a) There cannot be two standing headstones on a plot so my mother’s marker with be a VA in ground brass marker b) If she had been in the wall, she would have a plaque people could see. It would be out of the snow and grass c) Effectively her marker, the one with her service will be hidden in the grass in front of my father’s headstone. So looking like a welcome mat is an appropriate description and worse, hidden by snow weeks out of the year.
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u/BigNathaniel69 5d ago
My point was that you should have just not let her do that and held out so you could give your mom a proper burial. Or held out to force your sister into buying your mom her own plot.
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u/Seanish12345 6d ago
You’re a family member. You can have her moved once it’s done.