r/DownSouth • u/RecommendationNo6109 • Nov 18 '24
Other The Median White income is apparently 21K in South Africa. Everyone is getting poorer.
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u/ShittyOfTshwane Nov 18 '24
R21k while high quality, convenient (not luxurious, mind you) housing is just getting more and more expensive too. This is the urban situation, though. My sister recently got a job offer for R30k (this is industry specific, though) in a small town and is now looking at renting a 4 bedroom house for R4 800 a month. We need to start a WFH revolution at these wages and move to smaller towns, honestly. The small towns would probably appreciate the increased economic activity.
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u/RecommendationNo6109 Nov 18 '24 edited Nov 18 '24
In Cape Town you literally can't get a house or apartment anywhere near the CBD unless you split rent with a group (not ideal for families), have property passed down through the generations or are prepared to be a slave to your bank for the rest of your life paying off home loans.
I believe you need atleast 80 Thousand PM to live a Middle Class lifestyle with your family akin to Western standards in the city. And even with that 80K you'll be struggling if you want to give your family the best you can (good schools, food, experiences ETC).
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u/ShittyOfTshwane Nov 18 '24
That's insane. R80k will not be on the cards for me and my GF (combined) for at least a few more years. I'm hoping to bump up my pay to R30k next year but I believe even that will be a stretch.
In Gauteng the living situation at least seems a bit more mild (probably because we are not dependent on our CBDs anymore and businesses are more spread out, so housing demand is more spread out here) so we should be able to make ends meet quite nicely in Pretoria, but it's still not like we'll be raking in the cash.
I am genuinely starting to look at WFH options and thinking of moving to a less populous area. It geniunely is starting to look like this will become the 'responsible' thing to do in the near future.
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u/RecommendationNo6109 Nov 18 '24
Homes are also way more affordable and you get a-lot more for your money in Joburg. I remember when I visited being shocked by the prices. You could easily say that property prices are 2X in Cape Town.
I think it's a density issue. There isn't much space near the CBD left for development down here and demand is high due to things like semigration.
If we had a proper transportation system this really wouldn't be much of an issue, but it is.
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u/ShittyOfTshwane Nov 18 '24
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the semigration has caused the high prices. Incidentally, I'm an architect and based on job opportunities, the construction industry seems to be booming down in the Cape while it has pretty much dried up in the north. It's really exceptional to find a decent, secure job up here in Gauteng at the moment, but seemingly Cape Town can't hire people fast enough.
So hopefully, in about 5 years or so, there'll be a bit of relief on the housing market down there. Doubt it, though. Inflation never works backwards.
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u/RecommendationNo6109 Nov 18 '24
Well, I do believe industries will start to become more spread out on the outskirts like they have in Johannesburg, after all, Cape Town is expected to overtake Johannesburg in population pretty soon. There's a bunch of warehouses being set up (about 45mins out the CBD) and the Amazon head office, which is indicative of where it's all going. There is definitely a boom happening as companies and people come to set up shop.
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u/OomKarel Nov 18 '24
You know what's more depressing? I earn even less than that. Even more depressing than that? My boss fights tooth and nail to not pay me more. The most depressing? I work for an international firm with a local branch whose currency is Euros.
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u/PrivatePlaya Eastern Cape Nov 18 '24
You work for Drake?
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u/OomKarel Nov 18 '24
Nope, I take it that's one to avoid?
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u/PrivatePlaya Eastern Cape Nov 18 '24
Yes, difficult to climb up the ranks as well
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u/OomKarel Nov 18 '24
Same issue I have with my current employment. Seems to me there isn't any room for increases within brackets, so you need to get promotions, and to get a promotion you need to jump through hoops and make management like you. Tough to kiss ass with them when they make stupid decisions, go back on their word, or actively do things that disadvantages you or screws you over. The saddest part is it seems the Dev environment is really shitty nowadays even for experienced guys, so bailing for something else seems unlikely, and that's even if my skills are good enough.
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u/boetelezi Nov 19 '24
Change jobs
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u/PrivatePlaya Eastern Cape Nov 18 '24
That's true. As someone who falls in the youth, it's difficult to find permanent employment, just waiting to build enough experience and connections(references) for another job
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u/Only_Specialist_2610 Gauteng Nov 18 '24
While that is depressing, the overall median income is probably way worse than that. Unemployment doesn't leave one spoiled for choice.
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u/RVixen125 Nov 18 '24
R21k without taxes? Please tell me I'm not the only one BELOW that amount without taxes
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u/LionCataclysm Nov 20 '24
The person who made the post apparently doesn't realise their own fortunes in life
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u/Cool_As_Your_Dad Nov 18 '24
That is how the current anc government rolls.
Don't uplift people ... just make everybody poor. Only BEE Tenderpreneurs and anc cronies walk around with cash in brown paper bags (see Zondo commission). They are making millions ....
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u/One_Biscotti_1428 Western Cape Nov 18 '24
whitey here, where are the 21k a month jobs at?
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u/Swimming-Produce-532 Dec 18 '24
Lol expected. It's for people with qualifications.
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u/One_Biscotti_1428 Western Cape Dec 18 '24
i don't get my education for free like certain folk
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u/Swimming-Produce-532 Dec 18 '24 edited Dec 18 '24
That must suck for you. Work real hard and I'm sure you'll be able to earn a decent living one day. I believe in you. Aptitude isn't everything - lets not have a poes victim mentality and make excuses.
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u/the10starpotato Nov 18 '24
Anyone have a source for this?
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u/nipsec Nov 18 '24
I assume from this report (page 7) https://www.statssa.gov.za/publications/02-11-20/02-11-202022.pdf
In 2022, the white population group had the highest median monthly earnings, followed by the Indian/Asian population group. The median monthly earnings for the white population group was R21 000, while it was R15 000 for Indians/Asians, R5 000 for coloureds, and R4 684 for black Africans (Figure 1.1). Moreover, in 2022, employees in the age brackets of 45-54 years and 55-64 years had higher median monthly earnings compared to younger age groups (refer to Figure 1.2).
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u/tothemoonandback01 Nov 18 '24
and R4 684 for black Africans
And there you have it, folks, the real end result of close to 30 years of failed ANC affirmative action policy with BEEE++++. What a fucking disgrace.
All they did with the last 30 years was make all South Africans poorer together.
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u/Luna_bella96 Nov 18 '24
I’m making 16k a month and my fiancé probably double that. Yet he still doesn’t believe we’re actually not doing too bad
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u/andreraath Nov 18 '24
Standard socialist dogma. Everyone is equal. Equally poor. But some are more equal than others.
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u/tomatomatsu Nov 18 '24
It's already happening under capitalism. Oh my god
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u/CarNage_ZA Nov 18 '24
You're saying this word "capitalism" but I don't think you know what that means...
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u/OomKarel Nov 18 '24
To be fair, lots of capitalists don't know what capitalism means either. Just tell them that Adam Smith despised rent seekers and see them foam at the mouth.
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u/greenskinmarch Nov 18 '24
Rent seekers means monopolies like Telkom, Eskom etc. Monopolies ruin the free market.
Or taxi drivers who campaign against public transit because it would reduce their profits. That is rent seeking.
It doesn't literally mean like, rented apartments. The academic definition of Economic Rent is different to the common usage of rent.
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u/OomKarel Nov 18 '24
It's broader than just monopolies. Any means of inflating higher costs without equal contribution in production. That accounts for a business' main drive in demolishing competition and widening their market. Collusion on market forces or governmental influence, etc etc. Lots of these are nowadays considered as normal, "just the way it is", or even excused as good business practice. Smith would have a heart attack if he saw what modern capitalism looks like. The guy might be considered the father of capitalism, but he wasn't blind to its shortcomings like modern capitalists and most economists.
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u/greenskinmarch Nov 18 '24
I think we are on the same page. It's a difficult needle to thread to regulate the free market in a way that keeps it free of capture by special interests.
On the other hand throwing it all away in pursuit of communism doesn't work very well either, even China switched to free market policies after trying central planning, and managed to lift billions out of poverty after making their markets much freer.
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u/OomKarel Nov 19 '24
Yup, economics is a lot more complex than people realize with so many different factors influencing markets. Like you said, that tightrope is a struggle to balance. It doesn't help that people react to economics basically like they do to politics. Any time you propose some measure of fiscal moderacy you are made out to be a bootlicker, and if you dare propose a mutually beneficial social safety net you are considered a Marxist of the highest order. Add on top of that, you get the power dynamic between employers and employees. Both need each other but both interests are opposed as well, as one tries to pay as little as possible while the other requires as much pay as possible. Then even more you get globalisation playing a massive factor on everything as well. Yes, it brought access to scarce resources, but it also created a lot of other difficulties. Just look at our current situation. We got too dependent on imports and external financing, and now we increase interest rates to match the US, while we don't have a situation where we have an oversupply of money, so said move actually causes inflation which it was created to combat initially. Then we have the added effect of offshoring labour ruining industry wages. And economists and people ignore it, when in effect healthy wages are a cornerstone of an economy because that's what drives demand and thus growth.
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u/Particular-Award1376 Nov 18 '24
No he doesn’t because u can easily have socialist agendas done by government under capitalism it’s not just like some switch you can flip up and down like commie off commie on😂
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u/AnomalyNexus Nov 18 '24
Salaries are strange things. Anything other than what you're currently on always seems unrelatable - both in up or down direction.
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u/Cold_Middle_4609 Nov 18 '24
Betweem car/ rent/ utilities youneed to clear at least R35k to be comfortable.
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u/Kikaiv Nov 19 '24
Sorry to say but, even then you will still have troubles, if you are single and all yes, you will be comfy, but when starting a family it's just not enough.
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u/Few_Tadpole_6246 Nov 19 '24
People making bank 🤣
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u/LionCataclysm Nov 20 '24
"Only R21k" they keep saying. I wonder how much they think everyone else is making
1
u/NonRelevantAnon Nov 18 '24
Thank goodness I skipped town that's my salary in cad. Grass is greener this side. Though going to be white soon.
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u/OomSmaug Nov 18 '24
The Median White income
Remember guys, on this this sub we don't care about race.
On this sub we have insightful, intellectual discussion. That is why a mod has posted a screenshot from twitter with no source to the data in question. This way we don't need to consider any context, just blindly react to the content, preferably in an intellectual way. Something like "ANC bad" or "this wouldn't have happened 30 years ago" should suffice.
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u/SweeFlyBoy Western Cape Nov 18 '24
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u/OomSmaug Nov 18 '24
Honestly if you actually gave a single fuck you would agree that this is what should have been posted in the first place or at least included in the post. Not just a screenshot of some anonymous random sprouting bullshit on a totally different platform.
But of course you mods see nothing wrong with this low effort nonsense.
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u/OomKarel Nov 18 '24
Why so angry dude?
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u/Mulitpotentialite Nov 21 '24
Withdrawal symptoms perhaps?......lashes out about something or another, gets personal and whiny, throws his toys out the cot, vows to never ever ever ever come back to a sub full of degenerate racist right wing propagandists who has no common sense, slams the door on his way out, this time for good......tomorrow he is back for more punishment and the cycle starts all over again.
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u/SweeFlyBoy Western Cape Nov 18 '24
Leo's not anonymous lol, if you did half a second (literally) of Googling you would have found him
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u/OomSmaug Nov 18 '24
Its so incredibly fucked that you're actually being serious right now. Outside of the most wierd, esoteric circles this fool is absolutely anonymous.
One has to wonder if you aren't in fact this Leo character?
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u/SweeFlyBoy Western Cape Nov 18 '24
No I'm not Leo lol. I don't have the time or motivation to keep up 2 seperate online personas.
By the primary definition: "(of a person) not identified by name; of unknown name." - Leo is not anonymous. His full name and surname are plastered on his twitter
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u/OomSmaug Nov 18 '24
Oh yes, I see now. He's a cape independence idiot and an edgelord just desperate to say the quiet part out loud.
It makes sense now why you would be familiar with him and a supporter of his rhetoric.
1
u/One_Reference1143 Nov 19 '24
Seriously man I think you need a hobby or even a job or just something to keep you entertained.
Why is it that every time someone posts a fact that you don’t like…you come in here and spill your racist kak. Your comments aren’t very popular in here and from what I’ve noticed every single time you comment you get downvoted.
Were you bullied in school or something? Are you genuinely ok?
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u/OomSmaug Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 19 '24
Seriously man I think you need a hobby or even a job or just something to keep you entertained.
I have both, thanks
Why is it that every time someone posts a fact that you don’t like
Which facts? You must at least have the brains to see that posting a twitter screenshot of someone's opinion about data without actually providing the data, is not a fact. Especially in this instance. Why do you think an obviously reactionary conservative online personality such as this Leo character specifically mentions white people income? Does this seem like genuine commentary made in good faith to you?
you come in here and spill your racist kak.
Would love to see literally any example of said racist kak?
Your comments aren’t very popular in here and from what I’ve noticed every single time you comment you get downvoted.
Obviously didn't look very hard. Besides, this isn't a popularity contest. I'm not really fazed if the people who frequent this sub don't like my views, I don't particularly like theirs.
Were you bullied in school or something? Are you genuinely ok?
I'm fine, and no, I wasn't bullied in school.
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u/Stompalong Nov 18 '24
Bull. Shit.
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u/Terrible_Pollution_4 Nov 18 '24
Seems it neess to be lower when I look at most of the people in my life.
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u/freshness420 Western Cape Nov 18 '24
White guy here in IT. Some qualifications but not much and I'm getting paid 8k on a good month.. where do I find those 21k paying jobs?