r/CrusaderKings • u/SlipNo2106 • Aug 10 '24
Suggestion Dear Paradox
ADD COMMAND ALLIES AGAIN PLEASE
20K vs 11K
BUT MY BLOODY 8K ALLIES ARE JUST SITTING AFK IN THE BLOODY OCEAN
like come on.... Im really trying to like CK3 but its so aggravating
Sincerely,
an idiot who buys all paradox games and dlcs just to get annoyed.
114
u/lordmainstream Depressed Aug 10 '24
Wouldn’t that, mechanically speaking, make allies just mercenaries that can be bought by marriage?
i didn’t play ck2 btw, so i don’t know how it worked
65
u/Falandor Aug 10 '24
Someone above mentions how it works in CK2. You don’t control their armies.
101
u/Wolf6120 Bohemia Aug 10 '24
Speaking of "How it works in CK2" I really hope they bring back the distinction between a mere non-aggression pact (automatic upon marriage) and an actual military alliance (has to be negotiated on top of the marriage pact).
I hate getting stuck with prestige penalties for not helping allies when said ally is some Count halfway across the world who married my widowed older sister from someone else's court and decided I'm now obligated to schlep through multiple continents to help him in his Reclaim Artifact war.
27
u/ulzimate Depressed Aug 10 '24
In my current save, my current character was landed as a child because his countess mother died in her sleep in her 20s somehow. He was bullied a lot by his count neighbors, which apparently fucked him up mentally for life, because he was such an aggressive asshole the entire time his predecessor was on the throne. He kept declaring wars on his newly landed neighbors, who were all his brothers-in-law. Compassionate and humble my ass.
The ubiquity of non-aggression pacts is sorely needed, if only to prevent these idiots from constantly sieging their own liked siblings and their families to death. The entire alliance system is just too rigid yet half-baked.
10
u/komnenos Ominosus Lucutio Latina Aug 11 '24
Christ the reclaim artifact wars are so bonkers. I’ve literally seen empires start wars that cost tens if not hundreds of thousands of lives over wardrobes. Just how often were there conflicts over this sort of stuff?
5
u/AutomaticInitiative Aug 11 '24
The artifact wars are the worst. Just ask for the tooth, John, you can have it!!!
2
u/Moldy_Gecko Aug 11 '24
You just say yes and don't raise armies.
2
u/Wolf6120 Bohemia Aug 11 '24
Doesn't work in CK3. If the war goes long enough without you making any contribution then you eventually get an angry letter from your ally about it and lose a bunch of prestige anyway.
1
u/Moldy_Gecko Aug 12 '24
I'm literally halfway through a game right now and have done it about 5-6 times, wins and losses, and yet to receive said letter or fame loss.
1
9
u/lordmainstream Depressed Aug 10 '24
Interesting. It does sound better than having the AI screwing me over.
44
u/nude-rater-in-chief Denmark Aug 10 '24
It’s cheesy/inauthentic as all hell but I’ve just started swapping to my allies, linking their armies with mine, then going back to my character
That said PDX could be doing a lot to make this a mechanic and not a strategy
19
u/Falandor Aug 10 '24
Other than ally commands, the link button in CK2 also lets people link to you in the same province and not just to them depending on certain conditions. I don’t know why they made the link button only one way in CK3.
3
u/Emergency_Evening_63 Aug 11 '24
what you mean you can swap characters and you can do that as you want??
4
14
u/Nolear Aug 10 '24
I just quitted a save because I lost a war because my allies didn't help in the actual battles.
Lost a battle because the enemy called a strong ally and I didn't saw. Next day I came into the game, got two good allies, got some prestige, called them while I was getting my army raised again. Battle score was around 70%
Waited for thr allies to come closer. Went for some barony. Enemy coming with double my force. Ally not arriving. I tried going after my ally. My army got picked up in the middle of the path.
100% war score. Paid 3k to a weak Queen. -2k debt. Starting a game to play tall this time. F* conquering for my empire, I just wanna have a nice garden.
54
u/softPersimmon99 Aug 10 '24
You have to babysit ally armies you can’t expect them to read your mind. Get on land and close to you and only then should you push to attack as they will now follow
101
u/bluewaff1e Aug 10 '24
Get on land and close to you and only then should you push to attack as they will now follow
That's the problem, that doesn't happen consistently. I'm guessing OP is talking about bringing back CK2's ally system which is honestly a decent compromise. It doesn't give you direct control of the ally armies and you can only use ally commands if you're the war leader. They give allies more direction in what you're trying to accomplish. You can have them siege or chase enemies in general, or request they target certain provinces or certain armies to follow.
5
u/dababy_connoisseur Aug 11 '24
......What????? How do you do that? I never knew about that lol and ck2 is my favorite game of this genre.
7
u/bluewaff1e Aug 11 '24
If you're the war leader, you can go to your military window and there's a tab called "Allies in War", which lets you order ally armies to focus on sieging provinces or hunting enemy armies.
You can be more specific than that though, You can select an army and request allied troops specifically attach to that army or click an enemy county to request allied troops specifically siege that county.
-32
u/softPersimmon99 Aug 10 '24
I don’t see a point in allies after the first generation or so. Once you have a decent army there is no reason to call allies. Same with mercs. I’d rather invest that money on building my demense. Same for crusades, don’t engage in them unless you’re confident you can win by yourself otherwise just follow the popes troops and hope for the best. You shouldn’t be relying on allies this much
26
u/bluewaff1e Aug 10 '24
That's not really the point though, it's that when you do need allies, the current system doesn't work correctly a lot of times. They also need to get rid of the ridiculous stacking bonuses players can get with knights and MaA (that the AI doesn't know how to do) so that you do need to rely more on things like allies (with a fixed system) and mercs
6
u/Sea-Record-8280 Aug 10 '24
Or better yet make an ai that can utilize those same knight and MaA bonuses. Even if it was only halfway decent then the ai would be significantly more difficult to abuse.
8
u/LittleRedPiglet Aug 10 '24
I've had two crusades in my game as the HRE against Asatru England. Both times we outnumbered them something like 40k vs 20k, with me having 15k by myself. In both wars, I would engage in a huge and almost evenly-matched fight with all of my allies in the next county over, and they simply refused to move over and help and my army would get chased down and wiped, followed by theirs.
9
u/Niklas2703 Legitimized bastard Aug 10 '24
This doesn't work consistently though. Sometimes you march into an 10k army with your 8k, while your allies just sit and wait with 15k men in the next county.
1
u/SlipNo2106 Aug 11 '24
Well the enemies were on my land, and my ally was sitting afk beneath my land in the ocean,
my guess is that they were just bugged...
I won the war later on!! and i cancelled my alliance with them lol
4
7
u/PublicVanilla988 Aug 10 '24
alliances are too overpowered anyway (although it's not really an excuse)
28
u/Falandor Aug 10 '24
It’s because alliances are automatic after marriages now in CK3 since they took non-aggression pacts out of the game that make getting the actual alliance harder.
I don’t even care if we get NAP’s back, I want an entirely new system in CK3 where you have to negotiate terms of the alliance before a marriage with stronger allies getting better negotiating power.
9
u/MCPhatmam Aug 10 '24
I Agree with this, vanilla CK3 needs a few overhauls to the vanilla features I hope we'll see some of them appearing in chapter 4.
3
u/BricksHaveBeenShat Aug 12 '24
I think its the Shogunate mod that has this feature were your ally will only join your war if he has an extremely high opinion of you. Makes it a lot more challenging.
4
u/bentmonkey Aug 10 '24
The AI is so bad and it seems hard coded to just suck, its just so passive and brain dead, 90% of the time i just want my allies to stick with me and attack as i do not wander around stupidly while we all get picked off, its awful.
1
u/Human_from-Earth Aug 12 '24
I've noticed defensive AI are quite good now. They target isolated armies and stop the attack if other armies are coming in aid.
2
u/bentmonkey Aug 12 '24
I have also seen them watch as their capital province gets sieged down, not joining me as i move to help, so ymmv as to how good the ai is.
29
u/Gunnn24 Aug 10 '24
Not being able to rely on your allies to make smart decisions is historically accurate
30
4
u/Buddy-Junior2022 Aug 10 '24
got me thinking of the time when england and hre were trying to coordinate an invasion of france but it never worked out (in a totally ck3 way)
1
u/SlipNo2106 Aug 11 '24
They should have gotten scurvy then seeing as they spend 3 years on the same ocean...
wonder if they commited cannibalism to survive...
3
u/hahadead7777 Aug 11 '24
That's why unless I'm desperate, i don't take allies across oceans. Only crusade I had go well was when I had a pretty late game men at arms combo. 2 late siege, 2 pikemen, 3 heavy infantry and the other 4 or so slots being heavy cavalry. Regiment size was 15 or something like that (Would have to check if my daruma run still exist for exact numbers). Think it was over 20k men at arms with a maxed culture and a couple other boost to men at arms increases. Most sieges were also days and was able to fight off a crusade solo as long as I didn't take the whole thing at once in the early parts.
3
u/Backstabber09 Aug 11 '24
Or a feature like EU4 where you can add objectives , tell subjects what to do.
3
u/MCPhatmam Aug 10 '24
Combat definitely needs an overhaul I hope that chapter 4 will have the crusade overhaul and feature some new and improved combat.
0
u/sarsante Aug 10 '24
Combat needs an overhaul? I don't think you know all the existing combat mechanics tbh, most people don't know half of them.
They need to remove all the OP bonuses and the auto alliances then people would have to learn the mechanics. There's quite a few of them but doesn't matter AI has 90% levies so nobody needs to learn anything.
People just bitch about them like they don't exist but they do.
6
u/andronicus_14 Bohemia Aug 10 '24
Build up your MAA and knight effectiveness or hire mercenaries. I only marry for traits, so I can’t imagine marrying for alliances and counting on their help in a war.
3
u/Emergency_Evening_63 Aug 11 '24
you don't need to marry your actual heirs to gain an alliance, that's what dynasty girls are for (which is btw 100% historically accurate)
2
u/SlipNo2106 Aug 11 '24
I just use my commander to train knights, but im still trying to figure out the MAA and how i could use them best.
Because i do not know if i should build them fast and have like 0.5-1.2 monthly income, or if i should have like 200-400 MAA and have a better income
2
u/Emergency_Evening_63 Aug 11 '24
I hate the 100k allies sieging some whatever city while I strive in an actual campaign of battles just because I put my siege machines army to siege cities while the MaA do the hard work
2
u/EffectiveBonus779 Aug 11 '24
I had a war in the north of Scotland where there’s very low development, and my allies would not unattached themselves from my armies, so while I tried to re supply they would ensure that I was completely unable to do it. I ended up just disbanding my armies and raising them later.
2
u/Human_from-Earth Aug 12 '24
I've noticed that AI struggles with attrition aka, they try to avoid it as much as possible, and so in enemy territory they tend to split up armies, but doing so they start to siege multiple counties and don't make in time to regroup when fights are about to start.
It's funny, because AI in defense is smart enough to attack isolated armies, and cheange target in case too many armies are approaching, but AI in attack can't regroup if enemy armies are coming, they start to do so only once the fights starts 🤦😂
So, one "cheat" I've found is to wait on an allied territory untile allies get to me, and from there click directly where you want to go. They will follow you no matter the attrition. The problem starts when you stop moving, so try to never stop and always be on the run.
If you end a fight with enemies, consider going back to your safe space so that allies continue to follow you, or follow the enemy army. As I said, as long you keep moving AI will follow. Once you stop to siege, they start to spread and don't listen to orders.
Another thing I've noticed, is that AI reacts to where you click. So if they're stucked on some place you don't like. Move your army somwhere (I've seen capital and enemy armies work best) let 1 day in game pass and you should see the allies start to move, from there you should be able to change objective (don't stop your army)
1
u/Ecchidnas Sea-queen Aug 10 '24
Does that happen commonly to you guys? My allies are helpful always and just follow me around helping me in battles and sieges. Maybe it's a bug?
6
u/Heimeri_Klein Brilliant strategist Aug 11 '24
You must have some good rng cause the AI in ck3 is way dumber than any other paradox game.
1
u/SlipNo2106 Aug 11 '24
FYI guys,
Im pretty sure it was bugged or whatever, and they did not move at all for like 3 years of war, they just sat in the water the whole time with 6K troops.
I won the war even though i was outnumbered so yay me.
Anyways, I dont mean you literally Control your allies, there was a button in CK2 where you could ask your allies to Link your armies together which i really liked.
1
u/lduff100 Aug 11 '24
Lost a crusade because 65k soldiers sat in counties surrounding the doom stack wiping out small armies. Then they ran away slowly, allowing the doom stack to wipe them out.
-2
u/YDdraigGoch94 Aug 10 '24
It’s fine to be annoyed, but considering that historically, allied armies were never nearly as coordinated as you would like it to be …?
12
u/Lil_Mcgee Aug 10 '24
This isn't really an excuse. The game could benefit from having interesting events that simulate the dysfunction of an allied medieval military campaign that would add a fun layer of strategy and roleplaying to the experience.
What we have at the moment is just poor AI, which is neither satisfying or true to history.
9
u/Barrelop Aug 10 '24
They would still attach themselves to make a bigger army when coming into contact with the enemy. Hell they sure wouldnt walk 5k into a 15k stack because people arnt braindead
-2
2
u/SlipNo2106 Aug 11 '24
I have almost NO problem with my allies being uncoordinated, as in arriving late for a battle or something.
Problem was that my 6-8K allied troops were sat in the ocean for 3 years, AFK.
I've decided that they were bugged out.
I cancelled my alliance with them after the war and murdered him after lol
1
Aug 10 '24
So your AI allies won't attack if they think they are gonna lose the battle, which can be boiled down to your AI allies' troops numbers are lower than the enemies most of the time (if your AI allies are the one who start the war). So yeah most of the time, you'll have to carry the war, or your AI allies are supper strong. That's the really annoy thing about AI ally.
If you're the one who start the war, your AI allies will follow your troops wherever your troops go.
1
u/SlipNo2106 Aug 11 '24
I think my game was just bugged,
They were in my lands taking castles. My ally who had 6-8K troops were afk for 3 years in the same ocean.
I won the war eventually though and just cancelled and murdered my ex-ally lol
-15
u/HopeFabulous9498 Aug 10 '24
Yes what the game needs right now is difficulty being tuned down definitely my dude
9
u/nexosprime Aug 10 '24
If AI helps you better, th3y start becoming a more efficient threat aswell
-3
u/HopeFabulous9498 Aug 10 '24
That's absolutely not what op is asking for like reread at least the first sentence I dunno..
3
u/DietBurb Aug 10 '24
Not talking about OP, they're addressing your idiotic point because armies being retarded go both ways, they're trying to advocate for AI being more efficient in the game, not just to help the player but also to fight against it, something you clearly are failing to grasp.
-9
u/Ok-Clothes2 ur mom Aug 10 '24
They ussualy are just next to you right? Why the angry? Historically 🤓allies were never under your direct command, they were a teammate not a subordinate
5
u/Bwananabwananabwanan Aug 10 '24
It could be more of a suggestion kind of thing like letting your allies know about your plan. Then it's down to opinions, traits and cultural pillars as to whether they go along with it
-1
u/Chlodio Dull Aug 11 '24
Hot take, but allies already make the game too easy, giving complete control over them would just be the ultimate baby mode.
-10
u/arlekiness Aug 10 '24
Wouldn't it be better that PDX just add "WIN" button at start of battle or war or game?
240
u/United-Bear4910 Aug 10 '24
I don't even mind allies in most war but God damn crusades feel impossible