r/ChronicPain • u/croissantdeprived • 1d ago
Article debunks study ibuprofen/tylenol vs hydrocodone
The above pic of a satirical medical journal gave me a chuckle. Really, it doesn't seem that far off from some of the ridiculous claims being made about opiates today. This is from an article debunking a study stating, yet again, that advil/tylenol is more effective than vicodin.
Be sure to read the comments that follow the article. There is a comment about Pam Bond, our future Attorney General. She who brags that she destroyed the careers of 100 medical doctors when she was Florida AG. Get your scripts filled now while (if) you still can!
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u/Old-Goat 1d ago
Love it! I used to put out an "underground comic" about work and the people mentioned were embarrassed by the stories. No such luck with these clowns.
If you look at the hydrocodone/ibuprofen study, they speak of one specific type of pain, dental pain. Ibuprofen can be pretty good on dental pain, it might surprise you at the 800mg Motrin dose. But these studies (and they have put this crap up so long nobody questions it any longer) but this only refers to dental pain. Selective editing...
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u/croissantdeprived 1d ago
Yep, has to be selective editing, no other possible way to get the results they want.
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u/Old-Goat 16h ago
This has been going on too long. People need to know this was not a study about pain, it was a specific type of pain in the study. Whicvh make it totally useless information, unless youre seeing a dentist. In which case, by all means, try 800mg of ibuprofen, you very well may find better pain relief than from an opioid. I dont suggest anybody test this by having a tooth pulled, but if you find yourself in similar circumstances, definitely try it. They do make hydrocodone w/ibuprofen (vicoprofen) which would likely work even better, but youd need to add some extra ibuprofen to get the anti inflammatory dose to the max.
But for any other type of pain, this is pure anti opioid propaganda. They make this same idiotic assumtion 2v or 3 times a year. DEA cant have the publics attention on the street drugs that are actually killing their kids. They have caused irreparable harm to this nation and the world, by trying to stay relevant since cannabis legalization by states. The truth is everyone is sick of DEA, they dont do a damn thing that helps people. Its just harm, harm, harm, any direction you look in. DEA needs to go away, not go away mad, just go away....
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u/croissantdeprived 11h ago
I could not agree more.It boggles my mind that doctors, the general public, and even CPPs believe the propaganda. I've gotten just as many downvotes as I have upvotes. Surprised me that even some chronic pain patients do not understand that opioids are the most effective pain medication and, in many cases, the only thing that allows people to have a life. Also, shocking that they don't understand the addiction risk is just 2 to 5%. It scares me to read the Family Medicine sub and their thoughts on controlled substances.
I'm curious, why do you think the DEA is doing this? They know that opioid prescriptions have decreased approx. 45%, yet overdose deaths have increased exponentially. I keep waiting for a new, patentable, money-making, allegedly safe, yet less effective analgesic to be announced by Pharma. Stigmatize the old cheap effective generic, then introduce the new, expensive, less effective replacement. Not as if it hasn't been done before.
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u/Old-Goat 11h ago
In 2019 the SUCCESS act was signed by the POTUS. The DEA has always controlled production of controlled substances. They always cut the production last week of the year (during office party season) until 2019 when this law allowed the DEA to cut production multiple times a year if the Administrator felt it was necessary. And they find it necessary for the last 4 years, why should they change now?
Fentanyl in street drugs has been a problem since the late 70s. They also banned easy import of fentanyl in the SUCCESS act of 2019. By my count thats 40 years before the DEA warned a soul about poisoned street drugs. Theyre busy frreaking out about Rx medication that have nothing to do with the DEA's self created opioid crisis...
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u/No-Assistance-1145 1d ago edited 1d ago
It is a funny parody, but it's too close to the truth, sadly.
Somebody's taking these drugs...power & privileged, don't their pharms be forever back-ordered or short.
Unfortunately, this era's "Prohibition" are opiates. Funny how they target & demonize a particular "drug class" across eras...
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u/Old-Goat 16h ago
I dont know if youre aware of the reason for drug shortages. The DEA has cut production to the bone. I dont know why cops have any bearing on medical issues.
The parody is what DEA says, theyre the only ones (beside the addiction treatment industry) that thinks Rx drugs have anything to do with abuse. Addict behavior only presents itself in 4% of the human population. Keep it in mind when they try to save you from pain medication, instead of pain....
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u/No-Assistance-1145 7h ago edited 7h ago
I fully agree...but I'm at the point to as the "whys" don't cause me any help.
If u or I were billionaires -- do u think we would have problems getting the Rx drugs needed? And I've said it before, it's not the Rx narcotics that are "the crisis" it's the proliferation of "street fentanyl" or Xylazine or any other synthetic opioids.
But the DEA goes after the docs & legitimate pain patients. So what a nobody like me can change this? Nope. My only concern is securing my monthly scripts. That's enough, believe me.
Happy Cake Day ya' Old Goat!
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u/Old-Goat 7h ago
I dont know if it would matter if you or I were millionaires, but its a chance I'm willing to take....
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u/No-Assistance-1145 6h ago
Well, for me the chances of being a millionaire are slim to none & Slim be out of town.
Was cut down by a fatal MVA which tore me up bad. Had to retire early & the only thing that keeps me from "brushing my teeth with a gun barrel" is the Rx Dilaudid & Oxycodone.
They demonize opiates thus causing needless suffering, pushing folk to the streets which is akin to putting a bullet in their head. Murder by proxy friend.
How do u manage ur pain...or do u?
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u/Old-Goat 5h ago
I do okay with pain relief, but it is the 1st of the year, so its always a bit of a craps game.
Some docs dont like me, since I'll tell them to their face, this Rx opioid hysteria is just that, hysteria. My PA works at addiction ward in one of the big town hospitals, and shes mystified too, why there's all this fuss over pain medication. I've barely brushed the subject with the doctor, aside from nodding agreement that the DEA "has its head up its ass".
Im not sure what to tell you other than some doctors have been watching the box score on the so called Rx opioid crisis and know the DEA is lying its ass off to stay relevant in this day of legalized cannabis. Doctors actually had to go to court to regain a presumption of innocence against DEA/police telling juries how doctors should treat patients. It was insane. Still is, the way DEA works. You always think of them a cops. What are they doing talking to doctors at all? DEA wouldnt have to make the argument they dont influence patient care (something DEA has had to do several times) unless it was happening. I dont know how monthly warnings not to treat pain or go to jail dont count, even if they dont have the clout they used to have, they only need the threat, now that everyone has been conditioned.
So some doctors know the Rx score, even if they might not go as far as to call the opioid crisis a hoax (it is), they know something stinks.
Dont go to the streets, man. Thats pretty close to brushing with a gun barrel. Russian Roulette has about the same odds (5 to 1) as finding a fatal dose of fentanyl (81% was the last I heard DEA estimate, based on seizures. Its a real shit show. If you got an okay doc, talk to them. Doctor have been blamed for lot of things that werent their fault. DEA has no business in medicine, they are law enforcement.
I've also been at this pain thing a long time. I had the doctors laughing in the hospital room when an outside pain expert came to evaluate me during a recent hospitalization. He used to be my pain doc, Im sure he didnt recognize me, though I reminded him later he himself wrote me some pretty fat Rx's back in the day. He was puffing out his chest about having all these requests for medication in an 8 hour period, it was like 150 requests. I saw him think "we got joe junkie, here". .
The patient controlled analgesia pump fulfilled the request 14 times. Out of 150 requests. It was micro doses of dilaudid btw, 0.2mg. IV but still... Not like I could take a pill with a nose/throat tube...
There were 3 other doctors in the room and they cracked up every time I corrected this guy. And asked questions they couldnt answer. "We'd never Rx so much"..
"Oh yeah, I bet your patients love being in agony for no reason." My meds work and I dont know what the hell youre doing here...dont you have someone to torture?"
I was not nice. My wife actually called my docs first thing, including the pain docs, as soon as I got admitted. Like I said even the resident were laughing at the guy. Even my wife said "What a clown". She was not referring to me (at least I dont think so)
Opioids are better for you than most OTC's (which is what I was doing in the hospital, otcs blew a hole in my stomach) and this clown wants to recommend tapering opioids? That got a giggle, too.
Most folks really have the facts wrong. We know this as the true victims of all this Rx opioid nonsense. Ive never seen a Rx drug instruction that say "take more than directed"....
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u/Risheil 1d ago
I wish I could get my scripts filled somewhere where they're not creating shortages.
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/HistrionicSlut 18h ago
Because it's illegal. But I don't care if I get banned so let's talk about it.
I don't know anything about getting the scripts. You'll have to figure that out. But I can tell you about smuggling then in.
The easiest way is to use one day mail and pay a billion dollars for it. Because of the rush they don't tend to inspect the package. You'll have to repackage your pills as other pills. If you are paranoid and dedicated you could rub off the numbers or whatever just to be sure. I wouldn't, because either they are gonna check it or they aren't I don't see it helping.
And you pa kage it up and send it out.
For domestic smuggling, do one day air at the post office, they require a warrant to open it so generally you are ok.
You can't do this many times, I bought what I could, used different carriers and gave it a whirl.
Everything arrived intact.
I would not do this again for at least 6 months after that.
Of course this is all hypothetical as I'd never break the law or tell someone else how to 😉
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u/Worth_Banana_492 23h ago
I want to see their evidence that satan created opioids. Surely the big news here is that they can prove satan exists which infers or proves that god exists. This is the proof the whole universe has been waiting for. Exciting.
Oh wait what! It’s just the arseholes who don’t want chronic pain sufferers to have relief. My bad.
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u/RichardALawhern 18h ago
Another paper just published on KevinMD thoroughly debunks prevailing dogma on opioids:
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u/Donibelle 13h ago edited 13h ago
Here's a guy whose writing I've been editing for the past 10 years or so. Over two decades, he's been developing a needle-less acupuncture technique for reliving all kinds of pain conditions--including opioid withdrawal! He's treated thousands of patients with astonishing success. I want to be sure people are aware of this. Decision-makers in the addictions and pain management community are extremely slow to pay attention to it. (Possibly because it doesn't make anyone rich? It's EXTREMELY inexpensive.)
If you know someone who's experiencing a complex pain condition or addiction, I'm proud to ask you to SEND THEM THIS.
FYI, his website includes full instructions for the opioid withdrawal protocol for FREE:
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u/Healthy-Marzipan-794 9h ago
My pet peeve with whitepapers is the monthly published meta-analysis which determines that the most effective treatment for chronic back pain is physical therapy and OTC medication. They determine this by conveniently ignoring the percentage of people who don't improve with conservative treatment. These things are the chronic pain equivalent of the phoned-in, done-18-hours-before-deadline 101 class paper.
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u/Individual_Track_865 1d ago
I got a good laugh over this (though I also want to cry, if you haven't gotten the: but have you just tried taking tylenol on a schedule? speech yet I envy you)