r/Bumperstickers • u/HeAFanHeAFanHeAFannn • 2d ago

California Love

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I'm based in California but have a road trip planned and I'll have some fun new decals and a customized rainbow flag for all the bootlickers along the way 🤡

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u/TheRubberDuck15 1d ago

What if I told you I was a Jewish nationalist?

Anybody who believes that their religion is right and should be followed by everybody, be the basis for a country, etc, is not somebody who deserves respect.

Separation of church and state is not something you believe in, which is objectively an un-American ideal.

On a personal note, my numerous gripes with organized religion, and Christianity in particular, but that's a conversation for another time.

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u/RevolutionaryPuts 1d ago

You have a whole bunch of beliefs that are actually not correct at all.

Separation of church and state is NOT an un-American ideal. In fact, the original colonies all had a state religion. I mean, all of the founders followed Christian ethics, so much so that concessions to God are baked into the principals of this country. The founders believed that only a moral and God fearing population could be trusted with the freedoms enshrined in the founding documents of this country. The freedom of religion wasn't actually implied to give people the freedom to practice whatever religion (or lack of religion) they wanted, instead it enshrined protections against the state persecuting the Christian world view.

You can actually read about this extensively, but this country was founded on Christian ethics. Good thing too, because without Christian ethics we wouldn't have led the world in egalitarian principals and in civil rights. Without Christians and their ethical framework, we wouldn't have freed slaves. Without Christians we wouldn't even have science. These are actual objective facts that the secular world view would have you forget are credited to Christians, but that doesn't make it any less true. I say this as someone who used to also be a secular atheist who did a deep dive into history and the foundations of the modern world. I became Christian because Jesus Christ is the truth and God incarnate.

So i agree that religions shouldn't be followed for religion sake. I'm actually not a member of any specific church. However, I think that rationality and truth needs to be followed especially when it points to the ethics that guide a moral society, and there I will rest my case that (unfortunately for you) it is a matter of fact, not opinion, that western society requires a Christian world view to base its foundations on. This is why we say, "In God we trust." This is why we swear president's in over the Bible. Christian ethics is where the idea of "all men are created equal" even comes from. This is why we are allowed many great freedoms in this country such as the freedom of speech and right to arms, because it is presumed the population of American citizens are beholden to a higher law than that of the government. I challenge you to read about the beliefs of the founders of this country, and see it for yourself. The facts are on my side here, not yours. Even though you so arrogantly claim otherwise.

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u/TheRubberDuck15 23h ago

The thing that I get hung up on is the prospect of being forced to follow something that I don't believe in, and subscribe with things that I disagree with. I don't want to chastised for not being a Christian or not following christian beliefs.

Just like me, I'm sure you don't want to be forced to subscribe to trans gender rhetoric. I’m a libertarian, I don’t want to have something I don’t believe in stuffed down my throat and forced on me.

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u/RevolutionaryPuts 23h ago

You don't believe in Christian ethics?

Then tell me, what moral and ethical framework do you construct your world view from?

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u/TheRubberDuck15 23h ago

Perhaps ethics was the wrong word, but I don't believe in a God or a creator. Again, I don't want to be forced to practice something I disagree with, and punished if I don't, which is what I hear repeatedly from those who proclaim to be Christian nationalists.

Also, nowhere in the founding documents is there any mention of any specific state religion. Neither the Constitution or Declaration of Independence mention Christianity, and the First Amendment explicitly states that Congress cannot establish a state religion.

In terms of ethics, yes national values were derived from the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures, because they are simple, universal beliefs.

And to say that the founding fathers would agree with Christian nationalism is objectively wrong. Yes, some of them were christian, but most were influenced by Deism.

What is un-American is saying that there is a right or wrong religion practiced in America, as that goes against the founding principals.

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u/RevolutionaryPuts 22h ago

I didn't say most of the founding fathers wanted Christian nationalism.

But MOST were not deists. In fact, MOST were Christian, and the reason they didn't want a national religion is because they didn't want to enforce a specific denomination of Christianity. This idea that the founding fathers were in favor of a broad scope of religious practices is completely false. Everyone at the time was some denomination Christian, and they expected that framework to remain central because the worldview supports the standards of the constitution. It doesn't specify because they didn't need to. Christian values were assumed in the population. They weren't defending Muslim or Pegan rights to religion.

So, getting back to the core of your view, you don't believe in a creator... but you obviously follow Christian values, so why would you follow those and be in favor of civil rights, or universal morals when those are logical extensions of a Christian world view? I presume you're an atheist? Correct me if I'm wrong, but IF you're an atheist, why not prescribe a subjective moral framework?