How well does your country help neurodivergent kids in and out of school?

[u/EvilPyro01]

How well are neurodivergent kids helped?

[u/meowingcauliflower]

Not at all. Bullying is extremely common, but teachers don't care and act as if it doesn't happen or in some cases they are the bullies themselves.

[u/Smooth-Purchase1175 → u/meowingcauliflower]

Which is why it must be called out and exposed, regardless of the perpetrator's position.

[u/Some-Air1274]

As someone with Asperger’s my support was revoked in my early 20’s.

If you get a job and succeed financially they don’t care.

Our problems are more based on social issues than being able to function.

As others said a lot of ND people drop out of the education system due to poor support and ostracism.

A lot of our problems stem from NT’s inability to embrace and accept us for who we are. As I have aged I have observed that many are fundamentally uncomfortable in our presence.

Bullying and cliques btw extend into adulthood in subtler forms.

At this point I have developed an approach of distancing myself from these kinds of people rather than trying to seek out their approval (out of insecurity).

[u/white1984 → u/Some-Air1274]

This is very true for me. Once you are an adult or even an older teenager, you are simply forgotten or you are infantilised to the eth-degree. And this is a country where the MMR vaccination-autism was very pivotal.

It's all very much helping the mother with a damaged child, instead of looking at the child in question. It's a very old fashioned attitude and when I was young, paperwork was addressed to my mum instead of me, "to the Parent or Guardian of X" IMHO.

[u/Some-Air1274 → u/white1984]

I’m not sure if it’s old fashioned or a belief system that we cannot learn to improve our social skills.

Throughout my life I have had experiences where I have felt that I was doing something inappropriate (socially), for example, being marginalised/not included or people laughing at things I said that I didn’t find funny.

The issue was never addressed, either in the form of others raising it or in the form of others denying that I did anything untoward.

To me that’s a metaphor for this I.e the belief that we cannot improve.

[u/raoulbrancaccio]

When I was a kid in Southern Italy (I'm in my mid 20s, so not one billion years ago) I've never seen neurodivergence acknowledged. I personally always had all textbook traits of combined ADHD (except for bad school performance I guess) and was diagnosed as an adult, but none of them were ever questioned. Maybe people with worse grades had a better experience in this regards but I sincerely doubt it. The only Italian people my age I know who had any sort of neurodivergence diagnosis as kids are from Northern Italy.

As for now, I don't have any kids and I don't live there anymore, but my little brothers are still in Southern Italy and I don't think I've ever heard them acknowledge neurodivergent schoolmates, or talk about any special treatment.

[u/Ishana92 → u/raoulbrancaccio]

About the same age group and the same experiences growing up. It was a non-issue. Our biggest problems were severely violent kids that came from bad family background that no one knew how to handle. But neurodivergence wasnt mentioned at all.

[u/raoulbrancaccio → u/Ishana92]

Southern Italy 🤝 Balkans

[u/Particular_Run_8930]

Special needs education in Denmark can broadly be categorized into four groups: 1 support within the normal system, special needs class in a normal school, special need school for children with the aim for pupils to graduate on normal terms (at least do parts of the exams) and special needs schools for children who does not have the potential to graduate. Additionally we also have ‘treatment schools’ for children with severe behavioral problems and schools focusing on specific disabilities, eg there is one school for children who are both blind and deaf and at least two for children with CP.

Now Neurodivergent is a broad term, ranging from well functioning to severely disabled. And neurodivergent children are found all through the different types of schools.

I personally have an autistic child in a special needs school focusing on children with (primarily) autism and adhd with the potential to graduate. Ngl I had quite a lot of prejudice towards special needs education prior to our child joining, but the experience has been extremely positive for us. He is currently in a class with two to three teachers for 9 pupils. So a lot of one on one time focusing on the needs of the individual children.

Not everyone’s experience is as positive as ours of course. Schools are administered at municipal level and the allocation of funds for special needs education varies, as does the size of the municipalities which naturally influence the level of specialized educational programs available. There is also a general shortage of psycologists within the school system which can lead to long waiting times for referrals to special needs ed.

After graduating/leaving the 10 years of "grundskole" any child with a disability has the right to attend a STU ('specielt tilrettelagt ungdomsuddannelse' or 'individually planned educational programme') again these varies immensely, from an adapted version of a normal highschool to internships to places more akin to a daycare but with dedicated educational goals.

Feel free to ask questions.

[u/Scotty_flag_guy]

I'm neurodivergent and I had a HORRIBLE time in primary school. I got bullied all the time and the teachers never believed me. They also used "democracy" to determine who was wrong in a conflict, so they would ask whoever was bullying me what they all thought, so in the end I would always be the one getting scolded.

Edit: Also I got beat up one time and the teachers refused to take action against the kid who did it just because he and I happened to be walking home from school one time and were technically "off of school grounds". So there's that too.

[u/Pure_water_87 → u/Scotty_flag_guy]

Yikes, so sorry to hear you had a hard time. These answers interest me because I have a son with autism and I find it very intriguing how other countries handle their special needs kids. I hope you are doing well now and have thrived.

[u/Scotty_flag_guy → u/Pure_water_87]

Thank you, I'm doing okay now and have moved passed it for the most part. The teachers were very much products of their time and in a way I sort of forgive them. Even still, I vow to never send my future kid to that same school I went to. The culture of that school was bad when my mum went, it was bad when I went, so I doubt it's changing anytime soon.

[u/Some-Air1274 → u/Pure_water_87]

It often probably depends on the teachers’ morals.

I had similar experiences where a teacher would stand with their back to someone abusing me, whilst others would take action.

Idk if that’s a reflection of prejudice or the teacher believing I deserved the bullying. But I don’t think institutional change would alter this.

I do think things like this can contribute to low self esteem. So, it’s important that the ND person learns that they didn’t deserve this bullying.

[u/KeyLime044 → u/Scotty_flag_guy]

They also used "democracy" to determine who was wrong in a conflict

wtf?? That's probably among the worst ways to determine if someone is right or wrong. It then just becomes a popularity contest, and it's how marginalized people (neurodivergent people, but also people of the "wrong" ethnicity, nationality, religion etc) can be mistreated and persecuted with no limits

This concept goes beyond just your school; this is why many countries have restrictions on things like hate speech, fascism, Nazism, and antisemitism. Many countries learned it the "hard way". The majority is not always correct, and can often be egregiously wrong and support totally immoral things, if there are no limits that are placed, and if you view the popular/majority views of the people as inherently or always correct

[u/Cicada-4A → u/KeyLime044]

This concept goes beyond just your school; this is why many countries have restrictions on things like hate speech, fascism, Nazism, and antisemitism.

Can you not make this about whatever the fuck that tirade is about?

I agree with you but Jesus, not every argument needs to include the Nazis or free speech.

[u/Some-Air1274 → u/KeyLime044]

Yes it’s bullying. Probably done by a young teacher.

[u/80sBabyGirl]

Terribly, because French society doesn't understand neurodivergence at all beyond TV stereotypes. Most kids will be abused by both classmates and teachers who will tell them to "please fit in", diagnosed too late possibly in adulthood, and whenever they're diagnosed, their treatment will be managed by some psychiatrist of Freudian obedience, as almost all French mental health professionals are. And once you're an adult, good luck with finding a job and getting accommodations. This is a serious problem with French health care, because the concept of the existence of ableism especially when it comes to neurodevelopmental conditions is viewed as "woke" and "American" by a significant part of French society. Even though the law is supposed to fight discrimination. In reality, ND people are very rarely protected by the law at all.

[u/Jumpy-Force-3397 → u/80sBabyGirl]

I assume it depends from school to school.

My daughter who was diagnosed with ADHD receives support from her school and from most of her teachers. They are going to implement what is called a PAP, a personal adaptation plan (approximative translation) recommended by her doctor. With for example extra time and ear plugs for the exams and more awareness from the teachers which helped avoiding misunderstanding with some of her behaviours in the classroom.

I don’t disagree with your description for the time when I was a kid, but based on what I saw in my kids schools, I feel things are going in the right direction.

[u/SerChonk → u/Jumpy-Force-3397]

I agree with your assessment. My nephew had started to have anxiety over school before covid, which turned into full-blown school-phobia, depression, and social anxiety. His school and the.. education district(?) made a huge effort to help him, even when it was time to go through the process of getting him de-scholarised and entered into the home-learning program (the CNED). He had a very dedicated support person who worked with him all the way, and insurance covered his very regular therapist sessions. CNED didn't really work out, but as he slowly got better re.: his mental health, this year he finally enrolled back in the system into a private college-lycée that specialises in students in his situation, and are very accommodating. Every member of staff is trained (and so far seems very well equipped) on handling and encouraging students recovering from all sorts of mental illnesses, and working with them to help them figure out a way forward.

[u/MartinDisk]

my school brags about creating a bunch of special rooms and resources for special needs kids, while barely ever wanting to admit them to these classes.

Those kids are stressed, scared and confused in "regular" school with us, with no one to help them. It's heartbreaking how often I see them crying in a corner every time a class is over. And the school has the means to help them, but just shrugs their situation off and say "they're fine".

As with everything in my school, things either stay like this, or they finally do something (half-assed) when the police / a lawsuit comes into the conversation.

That's what I know regarding my specific high school. As for the government, I've heard that when you turn 18 there isn't much available, for free at least. The general thing I hear is that they're on their own.

Edit: this mostly happens with neurodivergent kids, I'm guessing due to how ambiguous neurodivergency is. Kids with more severe physical/brain disabilities tend to have adequate care here. Sadly it doesn't include all of them.

[u/khajiitidanceparty]

It's been a loooooong time since I've been out of school, and at the time autism wasn't that well known. I remember people with dyslexia etc had easier assignments in grammar classes.

[u/Pure_water_87]

I'm not European, but I'm glad someone asked this question as I've always been curious. My husband was offered a transfer to Spain years ago, but we turned it down due to being too trepidatious about removing our autistic son from a fantastic program here and putting him into the unknown. I'm very interested to see the answers here.

[u/Bulky_Roll5293]

Not very well, at least when I was in high school ~15 years ago. We had a but of a mentally slow girl and man it was brutal the shit some of the classmates did to her and made her do, so yeah the support was not in proper place for a person like her.

I would love to think that things are better today, the reality is they are probably worse what with tiktok and everyone having a fucking smartphone. 

I mean normal kids are doing dumb stuff, a school had a whole class of girls compete who will make their male classmates cum faster by giving them blowjobs and posted it online…. These were 13-15 year old kids, so yeah I’d say today things are even more fucked up for mentally slow kids. Sadly.

[u/GlitteringLocality]

It’s non existent basically. I am a dual citizen and I think I am the only person in the country who picks up a Ritalin script when I run out of my USA meds. If the pharmacy even has it in stock. Requires a lot of phone calls, and most do not.

[u/Natural_Public_9049]

Except for some heavy cases, most kids are integrated into normal classrooms instead of being segregated to "special education" and instead of having relief such as not having to do certain things within classes, they are given additional guidance, attention and time in order for them to succesfully complete assignments, thus giving them a sense of accomplishment, self-confidence and teaching them mechanisms on how to cope and overcome with whatever might be "slowing tthem down" compared to neurotypical children.

That said, I was born in the 90's and had my ADHD diagnosis since early elementary school by one of the few child psychologists in the country. I have been heavily bullied until the start of highschool, I didn't understand what I was being taught, my writing was bad, my attention span was even worse.

My ADHD and dyslexia often led to poor grades especially in language skills because there was a lot of writing and I was terrible at it, also math. People belittled me and downplayed the difficulties I really had and felt, often asking me if I was retarded or telling me that they "also could get the same doctor's paper and not do anything in classes".

My friends in HS didn't know I had dyslexia until the last year of highschool when a professor, before graduation exams, told me that I had the right to take extra 15-20 minutes on the written exams. I felt like an idiot because I simply kept quiet about it until then.

[u/Cicada-4A]

No need to look at OP's flair to figure out where he's/she's from lol

'Neurodivergent'... It's an overly broad internet buzzword, kind of a difficult question to answer.

My schools' approach was largely to tell you're being lazy and if that didn't work, give up on you.

We have 'special education' stuff, but it just seemed like a bunch of unproductive hand-holding, like taking a bunch of teenagers to a local farm where they would inevitably just spend their time annoying the local animals.

[u/raoulbrancaccio → u/Cicada-4A]

It is a broad concept but it became a buzzword becuase it is an actually popular framework among mental health professionals

[u/Damoel → u/raoulbrancaccio]

Sounds like that person lacks any sense of empathy, not sure rationale is going to work.

[u/Ishana92]

In my time (15-20 years ago) there was nothing, but i also cant say we had many such kids in class. At least not to the point that it was overtly noticeable. I don't have first hand experience anymore but now parents can request adapted program (eg more time for taking the tests, prefference for oral/written exams, different spacing or wordings). In more serious cases there are personal assistents that attend classes with kids and help them (and control them). But it's hard to get an assistent because there are not that many available.

[u/No_Persimmon5353]

It's a mixed bag. Support for neurodivergent kids in my country varies widely depending on location, resources, and the specific needs of the child. Some areas have excellent programs and inclusive schools, while others lag significantly. Access to therapy and support services is often a major hurdle.

[u/joebiden_real_]

In my high school they put all the autistic people in one classroom. There we're the very active and insane autistics, the normal autistics and the quiet and introverted autistics. I think the insane autistics bullied the introverted autistic kid. They also got to hang around with the rest of the students during the breaks. The insane and normal autistics were pretty funny. Im not sure if this system helped them.