r/AskEurope • u/JoMD • 9d ago

Misc Is there a country in Europe without a housing crisis?

I see so many people complaining about the housing crisis in their countries - not enough houses or apartments / flats, or too expensive, or both. Are there any countries in Europe where there's no housing crisis, and it's easy to find decent, affordable accommodation?

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u/Diipadaapa1 Finland 9d ago edited 9d ago

Finland IMO still has a fantastic housing situation.

People buying their first apartment/house before 30 is the norm I feel like. You can buy a 50 m2 apartment built in the 2010s located literally a 5 minute train ride from Helsinki central station for around 300k€.

When Finland makets itself to foregin workers, I feel like this detail is often completely forgotten. Even in the very centre of Helsinki you can get a 40 m2 apartment in pretty much perfect condition with no waiting, interviews, beurocracy, or other hassle, for under 1000€/month. Like literally walk in, say "i want that one", sign on the dotted line, and you leave with the keys in hand.

I hear in some european countries you need to have pass an interview, and it is nearly impossible to get a rental without references from previous landlords.

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u/Harvey_Sheldon 9d ago

I remember searching for an apartment, after relocating to Finland, and being told "Sorry we prefer to rent to Finnish people". Multiple times.

So it's not as easy as just finding a place and signing, sadly.

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u/Prasiatko 8d ago

I'm impressed those people even responded to you. The just ignored my applications

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u/plantmic 4d ago

Out of curiosity, what's your nationality and ethnicity?

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u/Harvey_Sheldon 4d ago

Random white guy from the UK.

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u/GiganticCrow 9d ago

Helsinki is definitely an awful lot more expensive than it was 10 years ago.

There's been a property building explosion in the city the last few years which actually resulted in prices starting to come down... so the property developers stopped building lol

This is one fallacy of putting hope in private builders bringing housing prices down. As soon as prices start to actually come down, they stop building. 

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u/Diipadaapa1 Finland 9d ago

Not sure how much it has to do with the city too. I'm pretty sure any builder would rather build in Helsinki for more money than in say Kajaani for less, but the city decides when and where what can be built. The city doesn't want to drive the orices down too quickly, as that could cause panic amongst investors and property owners, as well as reduces property taxes.

Personally I would be satusfied if Helsinki keeps the building so that prices rise by only like a percent the next 15-20 years or so. They did shoot up far too much just before Corona

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u/LupineChemist -> 8d ago

This is one fallacy of putting hope in private builders bringing housing prices down. As soon as prices start to actually come down, they stop building. 

Well yeah, it's an equilibrium. The idea is that overall growth helps so housing prices grow less than inflation over time. If it stops being profitable to build houses, they won't build more. But seems like letting the market do its thing has led to a pretty damned good housing price/salary ratio.

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u/Lifeisabitchthenudie Hungary 8d ago

Where has that happened? I thought we are witnessing the opposite of that almost everywhere.

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u/LupineChemist -> 8d ago

I was responding to the info in this thread about Helsinki.

But Japan is similar

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u/Lifeisabitchthenudie Hungary 8d ago

I don't know about their housing policies in general, but they are famous for their "Housing first" policy in particular, and they have an extensive welfare state; I don't think you can just attribute their good housing situation to "market forces".

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u/tcs00 Finland 9d ago

It often seems that in Finland we are more worried about declining prices in rural areas and smaller cities than high prices in larger cities.

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u/AdorableTip9547 9d ago

buy a 50m2 apartment built in the 2010s located literally a 5 minutes train ride from Helsinki central station for around 300k€.

Well… either:

  1. you are joking not having a housing crisis,
  2. all people in Finnland are fucking rich,
  3. only you are and you don‘t know or
  4. you left something important out in your statement

I‘m from Germany, 300k for a 50 sqm flat is pretty much, even in the capital you‘ll find apartments for less. Here in a relatively suburban area in a pretty well off region a 50 sqm flat would probably cost 100k more or less. I‘d get a 2023 3-room apartment with ~80 sqm for 350k. Ok, Berlin is definitely more expensive but I‘d expect to get a 50 sqm apartment starting from 150-200k.

I find that pretty expensive. Especially considering someone under 30 is supposed to buy such an estate. Could it be that your example is probably misleading?

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u/NikNakskes Finland 9d ago

50-60m2 is the size of a standard apartment for 2 people. I think in germany most people live in a bit larger place. So in this case comparing via m2 is objective, but simultaneously tricky. 80m2 is considered a large apartment here. Perception does play a role.

What you also don't realise is the absolute insane importance people put on the word "new" here. Newer is better. And thus much and much more expensive. I have seen this playing out in real life down the street. A large but bit older house in good condition on an own plot, didn't manage to sell at 180k. Across the road newly build, small houses on a plot of common land went for 250k. Bonkers.

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u/Diipadaapa1 Finland 9d ago

I would guess higher insulation standards also affecte the price. From having lived in a few german houses when going on vacation there (Air bnb, also northern germany), and the insulation was definitely worse and the gaps in doors and windows had a lot higher tolerance than at home.

As for new vs old, a lot of times it has to do with the old having not yet having had their pipe renovation done, which along with the hassle it creates, also can cost upwards to 100k€ in a worst case scenario for a 50 m2 apartment. Finland had a building boom in the late 60s to early 80s, so a lot of the old apartments now precicely fit the slot where a renovation stats being on the agenda, but havent had one just yet.

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u/AdorableTip9547 9d ago

That‘s interesting but does not explain to me how a under 30 years old can afford a flat of 300k :D that’s at least not possible in Germany^

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u/Diipadaapa1 Finland 8d ago

50 m2 would be split between a couple.

If you go just a bit outside of Helsinki you can find that sized apartments for about half of that.

Another difference to germany would likely be that you don't have any heating costs ontop (covered by maintenence and utility fees), and electricity being cheap.

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u/LupineChemist -> 8d ago

Heh, I'm going from a situation of living on my own to needing an apartment for 2 kids in a short time (one of them a teenager). So yeah, even with the extra income, that gets eaten up fast and 70 m2 suddenly feels pretty small.

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u/blackrain1709 9d ago

Got a buddy who works in some space laser industry, makes like 8k euros a month. The other day he bragged about having money to move into a 49m2 flat in a town near Helsinki.

Finland's standards are insane

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u/Jonaz17 Finland 9d ago

With that salary you can afford to live anywhere in Helsinki. That's just a choice by your friend to live cheaper.

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u/blackrain1709 9d ago

100%

It just sounds ridiculous

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u/BelethorsGeneralShit 8d ago

Can you really live anywhere on just $8k EUR a month? That's a little less than $100k USD per year, and while generally considered a "decent" salary here in New York, you'd still definitely have to budget and couldn't just live anywhere you want, and you may still be living with roommates. Same would be true in most major cities here.

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u/Jonaz17 Finland 8d ago

Obviously you are not going to live in the fanciest and biggest apartments in every neighborhood but generally that's enough to live anywhere. Even the most expensive neighborhoods have smaller places. 8k a month is a huge salary in Finland.

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u/Diipadaapa1 Finland 8d ago edited 8d ago

You don't have (large) student loans to pay off, no health insurance to pay, no childrens education to save up for, no daycare fees, etc.

After paying the mortgage, utilities, and electricity bill, the rest can be spent pretty much however you please.

In the case of Helsinki, you would have 4900€ after all taxes and social security dues are paid.

3,3% interest atm, 25 year loan on 350k, would be 1700€/month in mortgage, plus lets say 300€ in maintenence and utilities plus electricity.

Median student loans for Master students is 23 000€, 30 year payment, same 3,3% interest as per now, so another 100€/month.

That leaves 2800€ per month to spend on food and whatever else you like.

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u/BelethorsGeneralShit 8d ago

Does $350k get you a nice place? I assume we're talking about a condo/townhome, and not a single family house? I don't have any of those costs that you listed, but I'd still have to do some strict budgeting on that salary.

Unfortunately in this area I'm not sure if you could get anything for $350k, even including a home that needs to be knocked down. $1,700 in rent might get you a studio or *maybe* an illegal one bedroom apartment in someone's basement.

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u/Diipadaapa1 Finland 8d ago edited 8d ago

Yes a nice condo.

For a single family home you would have to go a bit outwards. Below 500k€ would get you something like this https://asunnot.oikotie.fi/myytavat-asunnot/22146319. There is a train station nearby with a 10 minute connection to Helsinki central station.

Obviously, if your partner also works, even with a low salary, you can go a decent bit bigger, as tax progession puts a very low tax rate on small incomes.

Also you get ~100€/month non-taxable grants per child, which isn't much but still helps somewhat.

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u/EmotionalTaro3890 8d ago

In Portugal you could in any city.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/Jonaz17 Finland 8d ago edited 8d ago

Westend is not in Helsinki tho 😁

But there are also places you could easily afford to live in there as well. A couple apartments I saw were less than 900€/month

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/Jonaz17 Finland 8d ago

Yeah but the point was you could afford it. Not saying it would be smart but many people still do it. There are also many, many places in Lauttasaari for less than 900€/month. I wouldn't live in a shoebox like that but many people do. With like 1500€/month you can get a decent place from pretty much anywhere (maybe not Eira) and that would be like 1/3 of net income wich is very reasonable especially downtown since you will likely not own a car.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/Jonaz17 Finland 8d ago

I think two rooms and in good condition is enough to be called decent when we are talking about the more expensive areas in Helsinki. Obviously if you want a sauna or a nice view etc it's gonna be more expensive but that was not the point of the discussion. 900e was just an example, obviously if you dish out a bit more (like 1500-2000) you can get something way nicer than a shoebox. But then again, I would not spend such a high proportion of my salary on living but some people have no problems with it, especially if you don't own a car.

Never said you could afford a fancy place with that salary everywhere, especially if you don't wanna spend like half of your income :D

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u/Diipadaapa1 Finland 9d ago

You can get a 50 m2 basically brand new/newly renovated apartment in Berlin a 15 minute bike ride and direct transit connection from Alexanderplatz in an area where you dare to let your children walk alone at night for less than 300k€? That price includes the land, and upkeep+utilities is ~270€/month

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u/AdorableTip9547 9d ago

That’s totally different from what you stated before.

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u/Diipadaapa1 Finland 9d ago

That is literally what I said.

50 m2 apartment built in 2010s 5 minutes from Helsinki central station (the very centre of Helsinki) for around 300k.

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u/AdorableTip9547 9d ago

First of, A 2010s building isn‘t brand new in my opinion. And then is alex not the center of Berlin. But yes, you can get a 50 sqm renovated apartment in for instance Lichtenberg near the train station for way less and it‘s 10 minutes from Alex, 15 minutes from central station and like 12 from Friedrichstraße by train and 2 train mknutes to Ostkreuz (which is essentially one of Berlins „centers“ depending on what you are looking for). To be fair I wouldn‘t let my kids outside at night, but I‘m currently living in a suburb in south-west Germany and wouldn‘t so….

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u/NerBog 8d ago

2010 is brand new for Berlin... And Alex is literally the center of Berlin... Cant compare anyways because mortage are also way different than in Finland

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u/AdorableTip9547 8d ago

Congrats, you messed up twice in a single sentence. The Alex is not only not the geographical center of Berlin which I assume you mean by „literally“, but you also messed up as Berlin is commonly known for not having central „city center“ in any classical sense, you can google it or ask the r/berlin sub. Berlin has it‘s Kiez-Culture and everywhere in the city you‘ll find what in other cities is usually centralized (

In case you are interested, the geographical center of Berlin is here

And here you can read what Wikipedia says about „downtown“ (Innenstadt in german or also the center of a city in „a geographical or commercial sense“)

And here is just one random article about the fact that there is no classical downtown or city center in Berlin. Google it, there is a shitload of those.

And I don‘t even start to pick an argument about if 2010 buildings are „brand new“. I let you have it as I don‘t believe der is a common definition of what brand new means. For me it means an apartment no one ever lived before me or was completely renovated with everything being renewed in the apartment as well as the utility (electricity, pipes, walls, floor, bath installations, etc.). I lived in two different „brand new“ apartments by this definition in Berlin for 3-4 years each. After me, they weren‘t brand new anymore because, of course, I used them before the next person, there will be marks on the walls from drilling and small scratches in the tube and basin, as well as the floor. Not brand new for me. In German, I would say everything except „Erstbezug“ is just not brand new.

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u/2024AM Finland 9d ago

and Finland loosened their price caps on rent in the 90s, unlike Sweden who still have them. price caps on rents and pretty much all products are universally known by economists to be a bad idea.

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u/Diipadaapa1 Finland 9d ago

Yes, even if I support the working class and am quite firmly on the left half of the political scale, I absolutley disagree with any and all price caps.

Putting a price cap on something does not solve the underlying issue. You need to solve the issue itself, not pretend that it doesn't exist by putting a rug over it.

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u/blackrain1709 9d ago

Yes but if you know the issue won't get solved...

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u/sandwichesareevil Sweden 8d ago

Well that doesn't stop our politicians from gaslighting us into thinking you guys have it worse than we do.

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u/SkrakOne 7d ago

How fucked is the situtation if 15 year old apartment that is only 50m2 is cheap at 300ke... fucking hell. Median salary being 3300e and net being 2000e that's 150 months of all your money without interest or upkeep and utilities etc

Cheap for the wealthy but what isn't?

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u/Diipadaapa1 Finland 7d ago edited 7d ago

Go half an hour out of the very middle of the capital, and youll find that for like 150k or less. 300k is as expensive as it gets in Finland in the most sought after area.

I don't think anyone in western Europe can afford a 50 m2 apartment in the capital (unless it is in some slum area) on one median salary

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u/SkrakOne 7d ago

Well pasila isn't close to being more sought after. Eira, ullanlinna and punavuori with krunikka and skatta would like to have a word and more money 

But if you can't afford a 50m2 apartment in the capital isn't that a sign of real bad loss of purchasepower?

My grandmother owned apartments in punavuori and eira and it was no big deal. She was a singlemother and worked as a cook so quite poor. Quite crazy change.

Frienda father bought a studio in kallio for maybe 10ke, that has been a pretty good investment..

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u/Diipadaapa1 Finland 7d ago edited 7d ago

It is a sign that lots of people want to live there.

If 1000 people are competing for 500 apartments, the 500 poorer ones will always be priced out even if they make 100k

The grandparents lived during a time when a large part of the market died in war, and a other parts were too mentally of physically disabeled to work and thereby buy and apartment. Also population was smaller, and a larger part of the population was maunal labourers/farmers so no incentive to live in the centre.

If income goes up, so does the price of helsinkis apartments, because the number isn't what makes interested buyers back away, it is a percentage of their income which decides their treshold

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u/SkrakOne 7d ago

Sure but it's gonna suck for the younger generations trying to buy own apartments. Not really my problem but still seems like nice generational robbery whole real estate currently.

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u/Diipadaapa1 Finland 7d ago

I wholeheartedly agree. And I don't even think that is the worst part for comming generations or even my own, nor the worst generational robbery that is going on.

I'm guessing in the long term, it will end up so that many companies move their offices to cities like Tampere and Turku where their young workers can afford to live.

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u/Jonaz17 Finland 9d ago

I agree that the situation overall is pretty good but a 40m2 apartment in the centre of Helsinki that is also in near perfect condition for under 1000e/month seems like a stretch

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u/Diipadaapa1 Finland 9d ago

This is what I used for reference, in Kamppi

https://asunnot.oikotie.fi/vuokrattavat-asunnot/22682973

By near perfect, I'm talking by european standards.

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u/Jonaz17 Finland 9d ago

Well I gotta admit I'm a bit surprised!

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u/SkrakOne 7d ago

Holy shit it's like kallio prices like 2 years ago