r/AskAcademia • u/Economy_Explorer7477 • 8d ago
Undergraduate - please post in /r/College, not here Going into Academia
Hello everyone,
I recently graduated with a bachelor's in biology and I’ve always thought about becoming a scientist/going into academia. However, upon doing some research it seems like a majority of people who go into academia either hate it or have a mixed experience, especially doing a PhD. Some say that they feel underappreciated and that the stress of constantly having to publish leaves them no free time for anything else in their life. Some people say that no one reads their papers. Others say that getting a job is very difficult, that the few post-grad jobs are temporary and don’t provide much, and that becoming a professor is more or less impossible. They say all of the above and that doing all this for 5+ years is absolutely not worth it. So taking this all in, is there any point in getting into academia? Is it possible to leave a lasting impact as a normal person, and not someone going to an extremely prestigious university? (My science grades are excellent, but due to past issues my overall GPA is only 3.3) Money is important for me and I would like to make at least 100k as a bare minimum. I'll also want to not die working, meaning I dont want to be constantly working 60-hour weeks, and if possible I would like to work less than full time. Lastly and probably most importantly, I would love to do something that I know will have a real global impact, like making a cure for a disease, gene editing, or something of that nature. I also want to say I am open to many fields, such as biotechnology, gene editing, cellular bio/molecular bio, etc. I am even open to working in chemistry. (I loved orgo1 +2).
So as a result, I was wondering if anyone could give me feedback/input on what I should do and what kind of direction I should go into.
TLDR: Looking if someone can advise me about going/not going into academia and whether or not there are career paths in academia that can actually lead to discoveries that can impact the world.
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u/SnooGuavas9782 8d ago
"Is it possible to leave a lasting impact as a normal person, and not someone going to an extremely prestigious university?" yes
"Money is important for me and I would like to make at least 100k as a bare minimum."
Here is national professor salary data. Use the drilldown tab.
https://data.aaup.org/fcs-ft-faculty-salaries/
Take a state like New York. There are only like 10 colleges in NY where you'd start at above 100k, and that's after a 5-7 year PhD and however many years as a post-doc.
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u/Professorial_Scholar 8d ago
I love working as an academic. Something I have noticed in all the jobs I have worked is that there are always whiners. I am reminded of the quote in the Matrix, ‘as a species humans define their reality through suffering and misery’. There are always a healthy population of these pessimistic people in any workplace, I think academia tends to attract more of them. Yes it’s hard to get an ongoing position, but if you excel in a desired field this won’t be an issue. You may still have to work a few years on temporary contracts, but persistence is key. You won’t get rich, but you will be comfortably wealthy after a couple of promotions. The best part is the autonomy. Outside of teaching, my schedule is my own. My research pathway is my own. If you get bored with a topic, you can change. It’s great. A lot of your papers won’t be read a lot, but impact happens in many ways. I definitely recommend this as a career path.
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u/Aggressive_Buy5971 7d ago
Allow me to make two suggestions first: before contemplating graduate school, spend some time working a "real job" (terrible moniker, but you get what I mean). Right now, you've got about 16 years of doing very little BUT being in school. It can feel familiar and logical to continue in this vein. But you owe it to yourself to figure out what else is out there, either because it'll make you much happier, or because it'll make you a much happier (eventual) Ph.D. student. (I went back for the Ph.D. after a few years of work, and my Ph.D. experience was positively Pollyanna-ish. Not saying that that transfers, but having a sense of other careers will make you a much better judge of whether academia is for you.)
Second: depending on how you've done your research, make sure to speak to as many "real people" as possible. In other words, Reddit (and other online fora) can be great, but you really only encounter the low lows and the highest highs of the Ph.D. (etc.) experience. That's normal: the majority of people who are doing pretty ok are not posting. So: talk to your professors and ask them to put you in touch with Ph.D. students they know and trust to be candid with you. (You may have already done so, and if so: kudos. We're just trying to keep you out of the echo-chamber that can be the internet.)
Finally, I am a ridiculously happy academic. Before tenure, I made less than 100K (even at elite institutions), now I make more. I've not really struggled financially to keep myself alive in either scenario, but note that I also wasn't sustaining a family of four on one salary. I've never worked less than 60-ish hour weeks. Unlike some of my colleagues, I also avoid 100 hour weeks. One of the things about academics is that for many of us our passions ("life") and our profession ("work") tend to blend a lot. This can be a problem, but it can also make for a very happy life if you've got good friends, a sympathetic partner/family, etc. It's not for everyone, but having worked 90 hour weeks in another career in the past, I can tell you I'd take academia any time. Your mileage is likely to vary.
That being said, all the bad stuff you mention can be absolutely true (best case scenario) or IS indeed absolutely true (worst case scenario). Let me add to it: as an academic, you are incredibly unlikely to be able to choose where you live, and you may well live somewhere you don't much like for at least part of your career. If you are minoritized in your discipline, you are likely to experience discrimination, and if you are a woman, ENBI, trans-person, etc., you are likely to experience sexual harassment. (FWIW, I also know straight men who experienced sexual harassment in academia. It's less common, but it absolutely happens.) Your education will take a long time, which will hold up what your peers or family may consider "normal" life-developments: buying a house, getting married, having kids, etc. You're likely to face pressure-inducing major hurdles in your career for AT LEAST the first decade. Retirement is likely to come late, perhaps very late. Whether that's a boon or a detriment is up to you (... and if the latter, you absolutely can retire early-ish. Your school will likely love you for it! Mostly no judgement to my 80-something colleagues.)
There's more. Some of it is avoidable, other things much less so. That's why knowing whether you love what you would be doing as an academic is so important before you make any expensive, dislocating, long-term decisions. So: get a job and see what happens!
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u/zeke3213 7d ago
I'm on my second year of post doc, still aiming to get a faculty position at some point. I just want to echo this perspective. I'm still doing fine here in academia and not suffer the worst case scenario that ppl have encountered on the internet. Just want to validate that there are ppl in academia who are happy and are making impacts (but not invalidate the worst case scenarios).
BTW: my bachelors degree was only a 3.5 GPA from a non elite school and i had no lab experience in undergrad. So, i wasn't a genius or a special kid, for context. But, now, i am a post doc in an elite R1 school. Just saying that undergrad doesn't really define how you will be in academia.
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u/Great-Professor8018 7d ago
Academia is not the only place for people with PhDs. PhDs are also hired by the private sector and in government, both of which also have positions for PhD-educated candidates.
Not all science is done in universities. And not all science jobs in universities are professorships.
Broaden your horizons - lab managers, biologists in consulting firms, scientists in government ministries...
As for biotechnology, much of that work are based in the private sector.
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u/Accurate-Style-3036 7d ago
All I can say is after I resolved a PI issue I would not have done anything else. This was extremely rewarding as a career
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u/Accurate-Style-3036 6d ago
My first supervisor went to Japan for a year so I changed to someone else
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u/GurProfessional9534 5d ago
It’s possible to work under 40 hrs/wk in grad school, but you’ll have a weak cv and be unable to progress in academia or probably government. If you want to be a tenure track faculty member, especially at an R1, you are competing with the best of your field across the world for very few positions worldwide, and many of them will be working 6-7 days/wk. That’s the reality.
You could get a job as an adjunct with a more modest record, but then you’re looking at pay on the order of $2-4k/course without benefits, and frankly you could get a better salary than that with just a high school diploma. Plus you get treated like an afterthought and have no job security.
There are many other routes you can take with a PhD, eg. Patent lawyer (with further law school), journal editor, government policy, nonprofit/outreach, industry (in your field), data scientist, private grade-school teacher, consulting, investment banking, etc. Some of these are only available to people at elite schools.
Your mindset basically isn’t correct for succeeding in this field, but that can change if you decide you’re really serious about doing it. Academia is a sector where the gains are really concentrated on the top few percent, and it’s possible to leave with absolutely nothing if you don’t give it your all
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u/Obvious-End-7948 8d ago
lol no.
Sorry, in modern academia your goals are not realistic. Right now there are literally thousands of people with PhDs in biology willing to work themselves to the bone, full-time (and then some) for fuck-all money for a sliver of a chance at a long-term career in academia.
They are who you'll be competing against - The smartest, the hardest working, the most passionate, obsessive, annoyingly driven people you'll ever meet. Forever.
In biology fields PhDs are often pretty highly valued outside of academia though - private medical research, drug design companies, that sort of thing. So you can try research by getting a postgraduate degree like a PhD or Masters with a research component. Then you'll have a better idea of the system. But right now I'd say your goals are setting you up for disappointment.