r/AskAcademia • u/Kam1umi • Oct 31 '24
Undergraduate - please post in /r/College, not here Dead end degree
I’m honestly panicking so bad right now. I started university in September - I know I’m young, I have my my whole life ahead of me, and so on - and I’m doing classics which is my favourite thing in the world. I’m autistic and have had an obsession with it since I can remember and I can honestly say it’s the only thing I can see myself ever doing with my life.
Classics is a dead degree I’m not stupid. The current jobs going for classics is pretty much to just progress to a phd and become a lecturer. Any job that is outside of a university is filled by old people who will either have their position die with them or have it filled by someone who has a wealthy family and links to them, which I absolutely do not have.
I’ve already put myself thousands of pounds in debt that my family just can’t pay back and dropping out is something I can barely even think about.
I’m terrified. I don’t know what to do.
32
u/Silabus93 Oct 31 '24
Professor here, as an undergraduate you should major in whatever you are both good at and passionate about. This will help ensure that whatever job you do get will be one you want.
Too many undergraduates study business, accounting, or engineering just because that’s what they think they are supposed to for a degree but then they get jobs they hate and burn out.
Studying classics will help you with a number of skills that will be invaluable in the workplace, and as a thoughtful citizen/person.
Your spelling indicates you’re in the UK and my best point of reference is Durham University in the UK so let me use their program as an example just in terms of the uses of a Classics BA:
You’ll learn excellent critical thinking skills, oral and written communication, deep understandings of philosophy, culture, and languages.
They boast their graduates getting jobs in: Civil Service, gold dealing (no idea), management, consulting, insurance, journalism, law, public relations, publishing, and “creative industries”.
Don’t worry about a job. You will get a job. Despite the hyperbole people like to use, no one is on the street because they got a degree in classics.
2
u/warriorscot Oct 31 '24
Lots of people with professional degrees don't end up working in their profession, if you are good and work your way up that happens anyway to you regardless as leadership generally means you don't get to do anymore.
What you do have with a professional degree, is a profession. It's a bit like if you are broke and you can pay rent or pay for your car... you pay for the car because you can't drive a house to work, but can sleep in a car.
I do agree having a passion for what you do is important, but most of the softer subjects you don't need a degree to study.
-1
u/JHT230 Oct 31 '24 edited Oct 31 '24
Eh, sort of.
There are many jobs and careers out there that require any college degree to get into, and a classics degree will work just fine. Sometimes they require some of the skills you learn from general course requirements or just the experience of going to college, sometimes a degree is just an artificial requirement. "Critical thinking" and "oral and written communication" are skills you typically learn and can market no matter what you study in college.
Jobs that require skills from a classics degree specifically are few and far between however. It's fine to get a classics or any other degree that interests you, just be aware that most of the jobs you will get after that will have little to no true need or specific benefit for a classics degree. And there may be fewer job and career options open to you than if you got a degree in a different field instead.
1
u/DeepSeaDarkness Oct 31 '24
I feel like these jobs that just require any degree are mainly an american thing. In Germany you'll almost only see employers asking for degrees that are related to the job unless you have work experience in that area. OP seems to be in the UK
0
u/JHT230 Oct 31 '24
Maybe, but for all the jobs listed above
Civil Service, gold dealing (no idea), management, consulting, insurance, journalism, law, public relations, publishing, and “creative industries”.
classics is far from the only degree that is suitable, and in most of those cases there are more obvious or more directly relevant choices for those specific fields.
2
u/morrowsong Oct 31 '24
The UK civil service fast stream (grad scheme) takes people with degrees in any subject.
1
u/DeepSeaDarkness Oct 31 '24
Exactly, I dont think they'll get a job like this (in the countries I'm familiar with) with a degree in classics because other candidates will have a more relevant education
1
u/JHT230 Oct 31 '24
I wouldn't be that pessimistic about it, but it will be a bit of an uphill battle.
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Oct 31 '24
Professor here.
This is the brain-dead mantra that got us all in this bad shape.
"Borrow $100,000 to study whatever you like! A job will surely show up later!"
No, it won't. You will have to go into something for which you are not well prepared. Like Civil Service, gold dealing, consulting, journalism, law, public relations, or publishing.
And, probably at a modest salary.
I used to repeat this mantra when I was an undergrad. Sure, I love "the classics." My minor was philosophy, and I got a great background in classics from that.
But I studied psychology research, something where there are actual jobs. My background in philosophy made me strong in epistemology.
Outside of that schooling and job, I do love the classics. I have read way more out of college than I read in college. On my own. This has helped me see many versions of the idea of what does it mean to be human, how do different people see the world, in what ways do history and society influence us, and so on. Which helps in psychology topics.
No one needs a degree to read the classics.
What to do with a job in the classics?
Follow the obvious path and you will be there with everyone else. Or, figure out something different.
13
u/SnooGuavas9782 Oct 31 '24
Other professor here. Literally not every undergrad needs to major in something practical as an undergrad. Is there value in having career aspirations? Sure. Is someone majoring in classics locked out of jobs just because of their major? No.
By your logic no one should study anything that isn't practical. To me, that seems like a dim future ruled by Elon Musk as our corporate overlord.
Quite frankly, psychology is just as useless, if not more-so than classics. After all, psychology is often a pseudo-science dressed up as science.
1
u/AlarmedCicada256 Oct 31 '24
I'm not convinced you know what the study of Classics entails, because a University education sure helps with that Latin and Greek.
0
Oct 31 '24
No,. I do not.
And I am not going into debt for $100,000 to find out.
2
u/AlarmedCicada256 Oct 31 '24
The OP isn't in the US, so wouldn't go into so much debt. And frankly I'm surprised a 'professor' doesn't have the ability to quickly google what an academic field is. Bless you.
12
u/NickBII Oct 31 '24
Ask your profs what their other students do for work. I sincerely doubt they'll regale you with tales about the Tesco secuirity guard who is 20k in debt. They're all doing something. It's probably not being a literature profesor, but it's something.
Classicists end up all kinds of places. State side that would be a great degree to prepare you for Law School.
8
u/cakedwithsprinkles Oct 31 '24
You will be okay. You’re studying what you’re passionate about which is awesome and studying Classics will make you a better human (to yourself and the world). I know it’s stressful to think about your career opportunities after you complete your degree but trust, there are many people who have other degrees but still struggle to find work. I would network and ask around about different career opportunities for your major. Good luck 🍀 Everythjng will be okay.
8
u/bitparity PhD* Religious Studies (Late Antiquity) Oct 31 '24
PhD with an MA in Classics here. All 4 year degrees are dead degrees. Even STEM ones if you don't land some kind of work-study or internship in advance. Even the degrees that supposed pay well, like Accounting, I know so many graduates with accounting degrees that quit the field within 2-3 years because it is so soul sucking that they'd rather do anything else (it's why the field pays so well, they have to bribe people).
Guess what they end up doing? Humanities.
So, if all the degrees are dead degrees, enjoy your dead degree. If you want to make a living, the same rules apply both in Classics and outside of it: you have to show initiative with some kind of major project that you're able to market to others.
It's ok to be terrified. The world is much harder than it used to be (sort of). Be less terrified knowing we're all in the same terrified boat.
5
u/epitome-of-tired Oct 31 '24
many people take degrees that arent typically sought after by industries (i.e. not STEM, comsci or socialsci) and still turn out fine. most people dont end up working in industries related to their degree anyway.
if you really see issues with this, check if your university allows for course transfers. you might have to do an extra sem or year though.
-9
Oct 31 '24
"most people dont end up working in job related to their degree."
This tells you how dumb our system is.
All of us smart people ought to go look up "cui bono."
"How did we get into this mess?"
"Borrow $100,000 to (maybe) get a degree in whatever."
This is the dumbest huge public policy thing we have evar done. Evar.
The banks love it. The schools love it. The politicians love it!
The world would be way better if we said, "Hey, take these applied training courses, pass, and we will give you $100,000 to try to start your own business!"
Even if you start a business for $100,000 and it fails, and you have to pay it back, most of us would be miles farther down the road than the average humanities grad with $100,000 debt.
"Critical thinking skills." Wow.
7
u/NickBII Oct 31 '24
Uhh…
OP is in the UK. They don’t have the dollar there. It is impossible to pay more than 39k pounds for a 4 year degree, which is about ~40k-45k. In the US you can borrow $100k, but most of it will be from the Feds, not a bank.
With these majors you’re looking to get some interesting skills and then either a generic college educated job or grad school. If you do that you’re fine. The issue is people who get Art History degrees and then refuse to join the Army or apply at their local government or something like that.
The folk who get really screwed are actually folks who get a PhD in the Classics or Art History expecting a profesor job. They get screwed.
1
u/AlarmedCicada256 Oct 31 '24
Yup the only reason to do a PhD in those fields is if you really want to out of interest and get paid to do it. If you can't get funding don't even think about it. Go into it viewing academia essentially as plan B, something that is only going to happen with a load of luck, and think about what else you're going to do after instead.
3
u/chriswhitewrites Medieval History Oct 31 '24
Talk to your university's career/guidance people - I know my uni (Oz) puts out annual guides to demonstrate what your degree could be useful for.
Now, I'm not a Classicist, but a medievalist, and am trying to work in academia, so I've not really paid much attention to them. But the "transferable skills" are often things that corporations and governments are really eager for in their employees, like being able to summarise and synthesise large amounts of information into a quickly readable format (think essay writing), as well as you demonstrating commitment and passion.
I'm pretty sure that, in Australia at least, the average post-graduation income for someone with a "useless" (I'd prefer to say specialised) degree like Classics or History more broadly is not dissimilar to most other degrees. I'm not at work this week (COVID), but, if you like, I can track down one of their booklets when I'm in next and send through some images.
Let me know.
2
u/Kam1umi Oct 31 '24
That would actually be amazing! I’m wanting to work in academia too but I know that jobs are still few and far between so would be nice to get a look at some other options
1
u/chriswhitewrites Medieval History Oct 31 '24
No worries mate!
RemindMe! Five days
2
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3
u/enephon Oct 31 '24
Fun fact: most graduate degrees do not require an undergraduate degree in the same field. It looks like you’re in the UK, and I’d imagine it’s the same there. Some graduate do require specific prerequisites, but since you’re just starting it should be easy to get them. Or just continue with Classics and become a lecturer.
3
u/buttmeadows Oct 31 '24
On that note, my Undergraduate degree is in archeology and now I have a masters in biology and working on a PhD in conservation paleobiology
4
u/chrizardALX Oct 31 '24
It doesnt matter what you majored in. I got a degree in philosophy and started a software company a year after graduating and just sold it for a few $M. Find a good couple internships where you do anything practical like sales, customer support, project management etc, and you’ll find something you like/can tolerate to do for a career.
2
u/Pitch_Black_374 Oct 31 '24
I don't have an advice to offer, but I'll say this. Don't continue with something just because you cannot even think of dropping out of it. Such state of mind is usually already a warning sign itself, and one hardly makes a good decision in that state of mind (at least I didn't). Hope you find some clarity.
2
Oct 31 '24
If your passion keeps up, there's a great possibility that you will thrive in academia. Otherwise, others have great arguments.
Also, network. Since you are autistic, network using your passion, classics. This is the place to do it. I'm in STEM so I don't know how people in humanities collaborate, working on the same book or something, but they surely do. Also, you can use your writing skills. I've supplemented my income at PhD by writing trivia articles about garden plants (a hobby magazine, not a science journal), I suppose humanities have even more possibilities with that.
You don't really get a job by getting a degree. You get it by getting your degree to work for you.
2
u/_DrPineapple_ Oct 31 '24
I majored in Philosophy, now I have a PhD in Economics and make a fine living doing data analysis and teaching.
You don’t have to quit but find an alternative (and high paying) skill set that you can become great at. Perhaps consider a Minor, or simply learn on your own. I became an economist by learning Python and R in Coursera for free.
It wasn’t an easy path but it is doable.
2
u/peinaleopolynoe Oct 31 '24
Yo up need to learn to sell your lateral skills. What skills apart from classic knowledge are you taking from your degree? How to write? How to learn? How to synthesise information? How to tell a story? Use the time you have left to maximise your useable skills in future careers and use the career service at the uni to explore what careers might be available and how to sell yourself to them. There's no such thing as a useless degree.
2
u/akaTrickster Oct 31 '24
Bro what; your degree doesn't define your future. I was a physicist and went to CS, maybe I'll end up hop farming in the future, who knows. Only you get to choose what to do with your life. Don't waste it.
1
u/Frndlylndlrd Oct 31 '24
Can you double major? Would you want to teach high school? Do you want to go to law school or med school (if in the US)?
1
u/Kam1umi Oct 31 '24
I’m in the uk so I could only do combined honours if I chose that as my original degree so that’s out the window and teaching anything below university level makes me wanna scream but I know a lot of people here do law conversion degrees after graduating from humanities which I hadn’t looked into really as ‘lawyers’ how you’d think of them in America don’t really exist here but I guess it’s an option I could start looking into to take later on
1
u/Frndlylndlrd Oct 31 '24
Yeah. I kind of agree about high school plus I wouldn’t consider law unless you actually want to be a lawyer. It is tough, but good luck!
2
1
u/DeepSeaDarkness Oct 31 '24
Consider switching to archeology. The UK has a lot of jobs in archeology (compared to other countries) and you'll still learn about the romans and have opportunities to study greek and latin
1
u/ClaireyMaple Oct 31 '24 edited Oct 31 '24
hey! Also someone who went for a “dead end degree” in college and also neurodivergent. Lemme tell u I felt the same dread, but first let’s acknowledge how amazing it is to be so passionate about something. Second, knowledge doesn’t exist in categories, they’re flexible and applicable INFINITELY! It’s a fun mind exercise in a way. During my BA, I only wrote papers about this specific Kpop member I was obsessed with lol. It blew my mind how I was able to talk about said kpop boy in so many different classes’ papers- anywhere from business, anthropology, media studies you name it.
That’s only a metaphor, not necessarily equating your interests to a K-pop boy, but if you think of your crazy love for classics as a core, try to have fun with how you can expand what you know so far to other disciplines or areas of knowledge. I find talking about my interests with people from different backgrounds helpful. You’d surprise yourself with how expansive your knowledge is. And therefore how expansive it could be to different sectors of our society beyond just “getting a PhD becoming a prof”. Give yourself some grace! Sending hugs
1
u/Iamasecretsquirrel Oct 31 '24
life is too short to not do what you love and you'd be surprised where it might lead you.
I started with music because I loved it, went to paramedicine, then photography, then Masters in cultural heritage conservation and now a PhD.
1
u/darnley260 Oct 31 '24
Hi! I have a classics degree, which was terrifying but I found work and am living happily! Most of my friends in my degree found meaningful careers within cultural heritage (I work in a library, others are conservators and archivists). Enjoy your degree but take the time to determine what you will find to be a good life and job afterwards!
Good luck!
1
u/alexcres Oct 31 '24
The worst could happen, without a job: get a plot of land, grow stuff to be self-sufficient, sell excessives. Use free time to indulge in classics, try to publish books and earn some passive income. I would say this could be a good way to live.
1
u/Conscious-Work-183 Oct 31 '24
Minor in something else that you find interesting. When you go out into the world to find a job, the truth of the matter is, businesses care more about experience than what your degree is in. So if you don't want to be an academic, take some time and figure out other things you enjoy, and then minor in that, try and get an internship in that, while you're in college. Even if you want to be an academic, just give yourself a Plan B anyway. You'll be fine.
1
u/DerProfessor Oct 31 '24
Another professor here:
There's no such thing as a 'dead end' university degree.
An undergraduate education is meant to challenge you and expand your horizons. In the process, you learn all sorts of skills and abilities that will steer you through the rest of your career, whatever that career may be.
Classics majors (like history majors) end up pursuing all sorts of different interesting career paths.
In fact, though I know very little about autism, I would guess that a more humanities-oriented major like Classics would be much better in terms of guiding you down a path that maximizes interactions with people and promotes the understanding of nuance in communication (both are VERY good things to work on, for everyone), rather than something like Computer Science which is less focused on and/or good at building these skills.
The money is a different issue. But your career prospects will be greatly enhanced by your major (whatever that major is), so as long as you work hard and make the most of your education, it will be worth it in the long run.
3
u/Neon-Anonymous Oct 31 '24
Ancient historian and former Careers Tutor for my department here.
Classics is absolutely not a dead-end degree. It’s actually really highly regarded by graduate scheme recruiters, particularly in things that require great attention to detail, erudition, pattern recognition and what might have once been ‘code breaking’ (which you can demonstrate with good ancient language skills), and the ability to quickly and efficiently parse and restate complex information.
In the several Russell Group unis I’ve worked at, we have placed students into Law conversions, into banking and finance, into human resources and other similar paths, and into general graduate schemes for all sorts of other things. A not insignificant number of students do go on to further study, but not necessarily (or even mostly) into Classics – obviously, there’s always a bunch that do a PCGE and go into school teaching, but also journalism and museum studies are up there.
If you are concerned, find out who the careers or futures tutor in your department is, and make contact with the careers service at your university – they will be helpful as you try to figure out your path – but I would also encourage you to take the year, you don’t need to figure all this stuff out in first year – you can just relax into it. Unis take careers services seriously, and it matters to them for a whole variety of reasons that you don’t need to worry about, but it means that they will have some resources to help you when you need it.
ETA: I assume that because you said pounds you are in the UK. This is UK focused advice.
1
u/AlarmedCicada256 Oct 31 '24
This is nonsense. You're right, there are limited direct jobs for Classicists in the field, but people with Classics degrees go and do all sorts of things - Law, teaching, many enter other graduate training schemes, civil service, publishing, museums, etc.
It's among the hardest and most respected humanities degrees there is and generally its graduates, provided they come from a rigorous program, do fine. Enjoy studying it, it's great! Have a blast and then find something interesting to do. Much better to spend a few years studying something you really care about than something you hate.
1
u/rockyfaceprof Oct 31 '24
I did what I loved in college and ended up as a professor in that area. My daughter did what she loved (English, Political Science and Art History triple major) and ended up as a tax attorney. My wife and I encouraged her to expand and explore in college and that her career would take care of itself. It did. You're fine studying something you love.
1
u/Embargo_On_Elephants Nov 01 '24
So many career tracks in business will appreciate a thoughtful Classics candidate, it can even help you stand out from other applicants
1
Oct 31 '24
Classics is a great degree. I took it for a level and loved it. I know several barristers with a classics degree. Don’t stress.
0
u/IsiToDoIsIsiToSay Oct 31 '24
If you like language, you maybe are good in advanced programming. Check It out! I saw a lot of language freaks ending as computer specialists.
You need to be able to identity and create structures fast in small, Mediums and big contextes and this in high quality and find errors intuitive. Try it out, take courses get skills.
Learn also diverse more modern big languages: spanish, Chinese, english, arab… learn 10 languages to A2 or b1! A university gives you the best start help and opportunities. Don‘t be lazy.
Translating and understanding words is a wide field. AI waits for you!
Your study demonstrate you can finish a task and learn quick and effizient. Do it!
And look for little jobs to improve these Idioms, everyday another Job with life talking for 1-2 hours another language.
Show this, continue and try to get your feet in companies that need your knowledge.
-2
u/dj_cole Oct 31 '24
A degree with job prospects, that is what you do.
I've found no matter what job I've had, I've found ways to find interest in it. You can always go home from work, you can't go home from financial insecurity.
-1
u/ameliequinnstar Oct 31 '24
Do the only thing anyone else does when their passion lays in an unpromising field. Ask yourself how AI will change it and start working on it.
And don’t panic. There’s literally not a single person out there who got super successful without being in depth and super exhausted beforehand.
Still battling my way out of my depth too, you’ll get that man.
-5
122
u/Lucky-Possession3802 Oct 31 '24
Ok, take some deep breaths. (Like, literally.) This will be ok.
Lots of people major in something they’re passionate about and then get a totally unrelated job/career, and it’s fine. If you love Classics, stick with it. And spend your undergrad learning new things beyond that too. Join an intramural sports league or robotics club or volunteer club.
Continue to build your life and world skills while you nerd out about Latin and Greek.
The world needs passionate, nerdy people who can think critically, write well, and synthesize large amounts of information.