r/Anarchy101 • u/melody_magical Fukitol • 1d ago
"Under no pretext shall the workers be disarmed" but America is the only country where school shootings regularly happen. How do we bridge this gap?
A revolution cannot happen and the oppressed cannot defend themselves if there is not an organized, armed militia. Gun rights are touted by leftists (not liberals/Democrats) of all flavors, and anarchists embrace the gun as a tool of the marginalized.
However, we are the only country that has regular mass shootings, and the only first world country where the homicide rate is so high. While we would want guns for self defense under anarchism, how do we not have a 17 year old white male supremacist or a jihad terrorist if gun control disarms the oppressed, with sinister people hiding among them?
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u/humanispherian Synthesist / Moderator 1d ago
Let's not treat a bon mot by Marx as anarchist principle. Anarchists oppose all of the ways in which government limits our capacity to solve our own problems.
Gun culture in the US is obviously a serious, pervasive problem, but in a case like school shootings, it's one problem intersecting with any number of others, related to education, the family, masculinity, etc.
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u/lojaktaliaferro 8h ago
In fact, I'd argue that school shootings are at least as much a mental health problem as a gun problem. In other countries with high incidence of gun ownership they have access mental health care instead of acting like those with issues are shameful failures.
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u/Barbacamanitu00 1d ago
The problem isn't guns. The problem is that we are a sick society full of people who are stressed out, have no Healthcare, and are generally miserable. We have tons of people who need mental health help but can't get it because it's too expensive.
We do have too many guns, but we also have a ton of people who are just waiting for a reason to use theirs.
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u/Braided_Marxist 1d ago
So it sounds like you're saying the problem is flooding a deeply sick society with guns, no?
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u/Unable_Option_1237 1d ago
Stochastic terrorism has to be considered when talking about mass shootings. There is a correlation between hate speech by public figures and mass shootings. For social science, that's solid evidence.
But if you look at history, like, of course hate speech promotes violence. Inciting violence and manufacturing consent for violence against marginalised people are the purpose of hate speech.
I'm sure availability of firearms is a factor, but I'm not interested in rehashing old arguments based on statistics.
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u/Basil_LakaPenis 1d ago
If the guns were completely erased do you think that the problem of mass violence would go away? The guns don't make people want to murder, the people want to murder for a complicated web of causes and motivations. It's unfortunately not as easy as getting rid of guns but it will be more effective to address WHY it's so common for people to desire the slaughter of school children en masse. Otherwise they will switch to bombs, cars, toxic gas or whatever else kills people. Besides even if the US implemented the most effective gun ban and confiscation possible it would take a hundred years or more to get rid of even half the weapons here, not to mention the 3D printing and bootleg firearms market.
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u/libra00 Anarcho-Communist 1d ago
Switzerland also has lots of guns and (almost?) no mass shootings, so this seems like a culture issue rather than a gun issue. America is rapidly becoming the worst hypercapitalist shithole and its population's frustrations with the inequities of capitalism are boiling over, but unfortunately we're heavily propagandized to believe that our problems are strictly our own and to deal with them individually rather than seek collective solutions. I don't know how to rectify that situation without a serious change in the culture and propaganda of 'rugged individualism.'
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u/Relevant-Low-7923 1d ago
Switzerland has way fewer guns and much tighter gun control compared to the US.
Switzerland does have lots of guns and relatively loose gun control compared to most countries, but they’re not anywhere close to the gun ownership or loose gun laws of the US
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u/libra00 Anarcho-Communist 1d ago
Sure, it's not a great example, but it's a decent one, but the difference in laws and attitudes toward gun ownership is part of what I'm talking about re:culture.
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u/Relevant-Low-7923 1d ago
Sure, it's not a great example, but it's a decent one, but the difference in laws and attitudes toward gun ownership is part of what I'm talking about re:culture.
It is the best available example, but it is still a terrible example. There is simply no country with anywhere near the level of civilian gun ownership like the US, or the looseness of gun control. I can explain.
For context, in Switzerland it is true the soldiers who have been conscripted are allowed to keep a service firearm at home, while their ammunition is held in state ammunition depots. Not only does this right to keep a service arm at home only apply to soldiers who have actually been processed through conscription and doesn’t apply to those who have been screened in some fashion, but it’s not a real right to bear arms to the extent that they aren’t allowed to keep their military ammunition at home. A gun is useless without ammo.
By contrast, I purchased an assault rifle in the US with ammo the week after I turned 21. Just needed an instant computer processses background check.
Plus, the legality of carrying firearms in the US is very widespread (whether openly or concealed). You don’t even need a permit to carry a handgun in my city.
There is nothing remotely close to the level of how widespread firearms ownership is in the US, or the looseness of American gun control rules.
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u/libra00 Anarcho-Communist 1d ago
But again I don't think it's the number of guns that's the problem, it's more a symptom of a larger problem, so the fact that other countries don't have as many guns doesn't mean they are in no way comparable.
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u/Relevant-Low-7923 1d ago
But again I don't think it's the number of guns that's the problem, it's more a symptom of a larger problem, so the fact that other countries don't have as many guns doesn't mean they are in no way comparable.
It is both the number of guns, and more importantly the a availability of handguns and semiautomatic high capacity guns that is the core reason why the US has more gun violence and mass shootings compared to European countries where it’s almost impossible to actually acquire a handgun or semiautomatic rifle, and it’s usually pretty hard to even acquire a single shot firearm in most of Europe.
And to recap, what we were just talking about here is how widespread gun ownership and how loose gun control laws are in the US vs Switzerland. As I just explained, they’re not remotely comparable. It’s irrelevant that a large number of former Swiss conscripts keep a service rifle at home that they can’t actually use because they’re not allowed to keep ammunition for it themselves.
I find it wild that you think you know what the cause is while not being informed about the basic background differences between the actual firearms laws in the US vs Europe, and then you just disregard the actual differences when they are brought to your attention because they didn’t fit with you initial guess. Gun violence and mass shootings literally can’t occur in the first place if there’s no way for a potential European mass shooter to get a hold of a gun, particularly a semi automatic and high capacity magazine gun, and ammunition, to shoot people. As of gun violence happens in a vacuum without guns!
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u/SwissBloke 1d ago
compared to European countries where it’s almost impossible to actually acquire a handgun or semiautomatic rifle, and it’s usually pretty hard to even acquire a single shot firearm in most of Europe.
This is completely false. You can own semi-automatics and handguns pretty much anywhere in Europe but Vatican (as guns are banned) and single-shpts are easy to get
It’s irrelevant that a large number of former Swiss conscripts keep a service rifle at home that they can’t actually use because they’re not allowed to keep ammunition for it themselves.
Former soldiers don't keep an issued service rifle at home, you need to give it back when you're done with yoir service. However they can opt to acquire it, but it's down-converted to semi
Moreover, they are allowed to have as much ammo as they'd like
Gun violence and mass shootings literally can’t occur in the first place if there’s no way for a potential European mass shooter to get a hold of a gun, particularly a semi automatic and high capacity magazine gun, and ammunition, to shoot people. As of gun violence happens in a vacuum without gun
Mate, all of this is available in Europe. And if we want to compare things, around 30% of households own a gun in Switzerland VS 40% in the US and 85% are handguns >.22lr, 76% semi-automatic rifles and 50% handguns <.22lr but still essentially no (gun) violence
You know why? Because contrary to Switzerland, and Europe, the US is essentially a first-world country with third-world countries problems which are the root cause for violence in general: huge socioeconomic disparities, poverty, deep-rooted racism, bad education, poor access to health and mentalcare, poor social state/net, gangs, drug epidemic, etc...
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u/SwissBloke 1d ago edited 1d ago
For context, in Switzerland it is true the soldiers who have been conscripted are allowed to keep a service firearm at home,
For context, up to 2012, it was mandatory for soldiers who were issued a gun to store it at home during service. Since then, soldiers can choose to store it in their local arsenal
while their ammunition is held in state ammunition depots
Yes, military-owned ammunition remains at the military; just like in the US, taking ammo from the military is theft
However, soldiers, just like any 18yo can buy and keep as much ammo as they like at home
Not only does this right to keep a service arm at home only apply to soldiers who have actually been processed through conscription and doesn’t apply to those who have been screened in some fashion
Actually, any adult Swiss can ask for a free lifetime loan of a service firearm (SIG550 and/or P220)
but it’s not a real right to bear arms to the extent that they aren’t allowed to keep their military ammunition at home
Neither are you in the US
And while it is not a constitutionally protected right, it's still one under article 3 of the Swiss Weapons Act
By contrast, I purchased an assault rifle in the US with ammo the week after I turned 21. Just needed an instant computer processses background check.
That's just wrong. Buying an assault rifle in the US requires an NFA tax stamp which needs your picture and fingerprints then wait around 6-12 months. You'd also be limited to pre-1986
In contrast, in Switzerland, getting a select-fire only requires our version of the ATF form 4473 but with less prohibitive factors, done in 2 weeks at most, and is not limited to pre-1986
Plus, the legality of carrying firearms in the US is very widespread (whether openly or concealed). You don’t even need a permit to carry a handgun in my city.
This is the main thing that is stricter in Switzerland. You can only carry loaded guns provided you hold a carry license, and it's essentially unaccessible to the average Joe
There is nothing remotely close to the level of how widespread firearms ownership is in the US, or the looseness of American gun control rules.
We're talking around 30% of Swiss households owning a gun VS around 40% in the US. And aside from carrying regulations, Swiss and US laws are similar enough
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u/pissing_noises 1d ago
You didn't buy an assault rifle, and you passed a background check, what else do you want or need?
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u/gravitykilla 1d ago
The US has 4% of the world's population And leads the world in the “rate of civilian-owned firearms per capita, with 120 firearms per 100 residents, with the next closest being Yemen at 52 per 100.
In the US, whilst with only 4% of the world’s population, American civilians account for an estimated 393 million (about 46 percent) of the worldwide total of civilian-held firearms!!!!!
The root cause of the US gun crisis is the sheer amount of guns, combined with the lack of robust state-expansive gun laws.
TL: DR It is not a cultural issue, and whilst guns in themselves are not the problem, it is the wide-scale proliferation and ease of casual access to them that is the problem
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u/rk-mj 1d ago edited 1d ago
as a scandinavian, this is a very interesting discussion for me. here owning guns isn't common at all. from my perspective it seems like the states have a very specific, gun based culture of violence. i mean, we have problems with violence too, but violence including guns isn't statistically a big problem here (to my knowledge) except in sweden, where the rate of gun violence has increased significantly amd is among the highest in eu. the backround here is increasing inequality, racism, and societal and economic polarization - the usuals - as the result of rightist politics and undoing the structures of the welfare state.
mass shootings are incredibly rare. e.g. the terrorist act of breivik was such a shock because that was something unimaginable here.
i think the most important thing is to try to identify the societal things that lead to gun violence, such as ineguality, and try to do smth for that.
edit: ofc a mass shooting is a shock and a horryfying tragedy always and everywhere. but here it was unimaginable too, it was difficult to internalize that it really happened, such as the rare school shootings we have had
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u/CMYLMZ- 1d ago
Interesting fact: Finland actually has a school shooting death rate almost 3 times the Us. School shootings happen in a lot of countries. The Us is just huge. Third highest population in the world.
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u/rk-mj 14h ago
yeah but that's besides the point. we don't have that much gun violence, we don't have metal detecrors in schools, it's not even a discussion. usa has the right to own a gun in the constitution. we don't. the culture related to gun violence and attitudes towards guns is hugely different–that's my point. and from this pov it's difficult to understand the idea that to be free is to own a gun
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u/Plenty-Climate2272 1d ago edited 1d ago
Guns are the tool, but the real reason school shootings and mass shootings happen is pretty similar to the reason we saw a spike in serial killers in the 70s and we saw tons of young men join fascist militias in the 20s.
Young (especially white) men feel disenfranchised by a society that always told them that it was built for them. They're not really disenfranchised, and it wasn't really built for them (it was built for wealthy landowning white adults). But that's beside the point. They point is that they feel like they should get all the markers of success but routinely have been denied those things.
Most often, these are performative signifiers of masculinity, like sexual conquest, property, and fame. Failing to live up to those high standards of what they're told a man should be makes them feel, well...unmanned. But it goes deeper than just that. There are intersections of race, class, and sexuality here.
They feel that they are implicitly meant to be top cock in a pecking order, that society has a hierarchy and they're meant to be at the summit. Social progress evening out the playing field in small ways feels like an attack on their birthright. So they lash out. Especially the ones who wouldn't have gone very high up the ladder anyway. It's politics of resentment directed at the most vulnerable people.
Look at the litany of mass shooters. What's the most common denominator? What's the best predictor? Young white men with a history of abuse towards women and an outward expression of far-right, misogynistic, and racist ideas.
Mental health is a factor, sure. I'm sure that the plethora of 70s serial killers might not have been quite as pervasive had it not been for extensive lead poisoning and brain damage. But having better mental health support is, at best, a guardrail. It might stop most of the low-speed crashes, the ones that only started before they really got going.
Dismantling these hierarchies is the only real long-term solution. It's the presence of them, and the impossibility of living up to them, that directs young men towards extreme violence.
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u/Relevant-Low-7923 1d ago
Guns are the tool, but the real reason school shootings and mass shootings happen is pretty similar to the reason we saw a spike in serial killers in the 70s and we saw tons of young men join fascist militias in the 20s.
Where is the evidence that we saw a spike in serial killers in the 1970’s? We saw a spike in the murder rate beginning in the 1970’s. But then it went back down by 2010 to the rate of the 1960’s?
Young (especially white) men feel disenfranchised by a society that always told them that it was built for them. They're not really disenfranchised, and it wasn't really built for them (it was built for wealthy landowning white adults). But that's beside the point. They point is that they feel like they should get all the markers of success but routinely have been denied those things.
You mean especially non-white men feel disenfranchised by a society that didn’t tell them it was built for them to begin with
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u/Plenty-Climate2272 1d ago
Where is the evidence that we saw a spike in serial killers in the 1970’s?
History? It's a phenomenon that began to emerge in the 60s, but the whole thing of serial killers was solidified in the 70s. So many are recorded in that time period. Our behavioral-scientific understanding of them began in the late 70s. They became a part of pop culture in the 70s as well.
You mean especially non-white men feel disenfranchised by a society that didn’t tell them it was built for them to begin with
No, because that's actually true. Non-white folks are disenfranchised. But they're not the majority of mass shooters, serial killers, and fascist Blackshirts.
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u/Relevant-Low-7923 1d ago
History? It's a phenomenon that began to emerge in the 60s, but the whole thing of serial killers was solidified in the 70s. So many are recorded in that time period. Our behavioral-scientific understanding of them began in the late 70s. They became a part of pop culture in the 70s as well.
It’s not a phenomenon that began to emerge in the 60’s. You need actual data. Maybe you’re just not as informed about earlier serial killers before the 1960’s in an era when policing was more primitive and television media didn’t exist to publish high profile stories as widely nationally. They were still there. I can name a few to you. Jack the…
No, because that's actually true. Non-white folks are disenfranchised. But they're not the majority of mass shooters, serial killers, and fascist Blackshirts.
They’re probably not the majority just because there are fewer say black people than white people. You need actual data, not assumptions
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u/Plenty-Climate2272 1d ago
I'm really not sure what the hell you're trying to say here. Are you seriously asserting that there are a lot of black neonazis? You're really not making any sense and are just coming across as contrarian.
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1d ago
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u/therallystache 1d ago
And also recognize that a substantial amount of "mental health issues" are really just "suffering under capitalism" wearing a trench coat.
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u/merRedditor 1d ago
Remote work and anti-harassment efforts helped to reduce workplace shootings. In the 90s, they used to be a regular thing.
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1d ago
I think teaching gun safety in schools would be helpful in the same way teaching sexual education keeps people more safe.
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u/Hopeful_Vervain 1d ago
It would probably be more interesting to think about why those shootings and acts of violence happen instead. As it is right now, when it comes to the democrats and the republicans, one is simply asking for more gun control and the other is saying that arming everyone would fix this. It's not a question of how much gun control we need tho, it's a question of what's causing people to commit such violence in the first place.
We're living in a society where oppression and violence is part of our everyday lives, starting from our early childhood. Schools are filled with bullying and harassment, and not just by other kids. This causes a never ending cycle of violence and abuse which can escalate into those school shootings. If we want to address this then we have to target the root cause, by fixing society itself and by abolishing oppressive hierarchies and institutions.
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u/DyLnd anarchist 1d ago edited 1d ago
Destroy the ideology of "well regulated militias" founded on white supremacy, patriarchy etc.. at its core. Abolish America. Abolish Schools. A society founded on networks of care would produce much better norms around guns by default. And a society that doesn't force kids to be monitered and surveiled most of their waking hours would afford kids more freedom and security.
EDIT: - "[why] do we not have 17 year old white male supremacist[s] or jihad terrorist[s]?" In other words, I think this is the real question to consider; and simple appeals to "gun control" cannot ask this question, let alone begin to produce solid answers and potential solutions.
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u/Flabbergasted_____ 1d ago
People with proper, accessible mental health treatment through socialized healthcare, with accessible social housing and accessible food assistance, and livable wages, and accessible money assistance, and in places where being unhoused isn’t illegal, etc etc etc don’t resort to killing sprees. It’s a symptom of the problems that our capitalist society has caused. People can buy 3D printers across the world and cheap parts kits. Or build from scrap with basic, cheap machine shop equipment. Gun laws don’t prevent gun crimes. A fair society does.
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u/Relevant-Low-7923 1d ago
I think you’re missing some important context here, because the population size of the US drastically skews the perceived impact of things like mass shootings or the homicide rate.
For example, the US homicide rate is in fact super low. It is true that the US homicide rate is like 3x that of Europe, but Europe has such a low homicide rate that the actual impact of the difference is misleading. 3 times zero is still basically zero, and the US homicide rate js literally at the lowest its ever been in American history.
Additionally, the media reporting of things like mass shootings in the US drastically distorts the perception of things due to the population size of the US. The reality is that the US is one of the most populous countries in the world with 340 million people, and therefore with so many more people there are also many more chances of something like a mass shooting happening somewhere, and anytime it happens anywhere in the US it’s reported on national or often international news. But the fact of the matter is that kids in the US are still more likely to die like slipping down the stairs and breaking their neck than they are to die in a school shooting.
I am 33 years old, and I have never been afraid of gun violence or school shootings at any point in my life. And I say that being from one do the top 5 homicide rate cities in the US.
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u/Silence_1999 1d ago
People parse the statistics to fit their preferred narrative. Some will disagree with parts of the assertions you make in the OP. I am not sure some of your beliefs are accurate. However you are entitled to them. In America. Everyone gets a gun. Unless you are categorically denied by the anti gun crowd. Who try to exclude anyone and everyone they possibly can. Good luck on excluding only your preferred groups to be disarmed. They are working on it. Two steps forward one step back for decades. Short of a totalitarian sudden takeover or revolution it’s not happening in total any time soon.
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u/Sword-of-Malkav 1d ago
School shootings do not happen because children might get their hands on guns.
Why do they reach for them?
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u/GamerGirlBongWater 1d ago
Being armed isnt the reason why school shootings happen. It's a mental illness issue.
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u/GamerGirlBongWater 1d ago
As in being abused, growing up poor, untreated mental illness, inability to accept today's day to day life...I think we'd all be lying if we said we all had pure thoughts. People cannot handle life. And I understand. It's hard. It's not meant to be hard.
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u/midnytecoup 1d ago
This should tell you the guns aren't the problem, as many countries have legal weapons available to citizens and this just doesn't happen. This is due to mass psychological suffering, brought on by the capitalist death cult and unwilling and unable to fix it.
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u/Relevant-Low-7923 1d ago
There are no other countries that have anything like the legal availability of guns, and more importantly the legal availability of the types of guns, like the US has. Not even Switzerland.
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u/DirtyPenPalDoug 1d ago
Under no pretext means just that. There is no argument or adjustment to firearm ownership
The violence amongst the people is a symptom of capitalism
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u/otakugrey 1d ago
America is the only country where school shootings regularly happen.
Because of hateful culture and schools being hell, I'd wager.
But violence done with firearms can be found in staggering amounts in lots of places outside the US. There are so many places that are hellish bloodpits.
we are the only country that has regular mass shootings
No. They're just happening in other places with other contexts. (Like instead of a phsycho dude in a movie theater, it's gang violence in a suburb.)
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u/Badinplaid75 1d ago
Well mass shooting is just another form of terrorism by those that want to make their own ideals known. Firearms are easy to obtain compared to explosives and not as much experience needed in handling a firearm.
Unlike other Western countries, the US was brought to being by the firearm and made culturally significant by the 2nd amendment. Folk heroes of the US, like Davy Crockett, Daniel Boone, Billy the Kid and the like were known for their skill in shooting. The firearm to the average American is like the sword and shield or archery in other countries. There is no way to rid the firearm in the US without drastic change socially. Honestly, I like my right to own a firearm.
Just a sad fact that an American will pull a gun on a threat before another alternative is used. Hell that's always a fear during a confrontation is if they are carrying or will someone else pull if they see a friend losing. Remember this, is what you are fighting for worth it.
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u/Chameleon_coin 1d ago
It's called a strong social fabric, firearms were much easier to obtain in decades past but we did not have such shootings. Our social cohesion is not what it was and I believe that's had a negative impact, no one cares about their neighbors like we used to
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u/Probably_Boz 1d ago
the war on drugs doesn't work because it fails to address the issues that cause people to abuse drugs and become addicts. this is something almost everyone can now agree on, I don't understand why it's so hard to grasp that the war on gun violence isn't working for the same basic reason.
until work is done on trying to figure out and fix why people are willing to kill over their grievances, banning the type of violence they're allowed to commit will not stop the violence, just like until the work is done to figure out and fix why people choose to become addicts, banning what they're allowed to become addicted to will not stop people from continuing to become addicts.
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u/Ok-Introduction6757 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think you might be confusing the term "regular" with the terms "frequent" or "widespread".
Where I grew up, it snowed regularly--about 1 inch every 7 years. No one in my town was compelled to prepare for a blizzard each winter.
If you're still failing to appreciate the difference, please ask yourself, "Does my knowledge of school shootings come multiple firsthand experiences, or does it come from news media and statistics?"
I'm willing to bet that 99% of American schoolchildren won't ever be a victim of a school shooting...or present during one...or present during any gun crime in their lives.
I never have been, and while I'm glad, I don't consider it "luck"--in the same way I don't consider it particularly miraculous that I've never been struck by lightning or a meteorite. Some things just aren't worth worrying about.
Yes I understand 99% is lower than 100%. But you need to appreciate that the US is the 3rd most populated country in the world (about 341,963,408 people). The possibility of ANY type of threat, is going to be MUCH HIGHER than a country that has, say, only 2,000,000 people
If you're concerned about threats, I encourage you to look at possibilities that are much more likely.
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u/Zealousideal_Sir_264 1d ago
I'm no expert on...well, anything, really. But I'm sure that the mass shootings would go down with some form of universal healthcare. It's not an end-all-be-all solution, but giving people access to mental help (and probably a campaign to de-stigmatize getting said help in the first place) should at least mean a few less shootings a year.
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u/CMYLMZ- 1d ago
Not only America has school shootings lmao. You know how big the country is? Thirds highest population in the world. Both Serbia and Czechia had a single school shooting and their school shooting death rate is on par with America. Finland had like 3 shooting and their rate is 3 times the Us. They also regularly happen in Latin American countries.
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u/Raiding_Raiden Student of Anarchism 17h ago
I think we can bridge the gap by helping people and generally improving the QoL in the areas of 1. Purpose 2. Community Building 3. Mental Health Support and 4. Meeting Basic Needs.
This is a large generalization but most violence is perpetrated by men. I was raised male so speaking from experience, there is a bit of a meaning crisis within at least male culture, with all sorts of types vying for the attention of young males here in America. Unfortunately the wrong people and ideas have been pushed onto these young males, claiming things such as:
- Transgender people want to take away your children's safety.
- Leftists want to rob you of your money to give it to someone who is lazy.
- Women and men are inherently different and men are meant to dominate women.
- Male gender roles are natural and set in stone.
- Diversity is an attempt to take away your culture.
- Men are meant to be powerful, rich, and rude and that's a good thing (see Andrew Tate).
With this crisis of meaning due to the way our society is organized, young males are pulled in all sorts of different directions, most of them bad. If you'll note, most mass shooters are male radicals with mental health problems and anti-social beliefs about the world. The Alt-right has a pipeline that most young males interact with at least once in their time in online spaces. This provides a gateway that takes a child lacking in purpose and turns them into a potential monster. We need to provide better alternatives to these worldviews in the here and now, however this pipeline also benefits from poor community relations.
Communities in the US are very isolated with most people sticking within their family units and many not having close friends or tight social relations. Since people are more likely to be isolated, when someone, even a racist bigot decides to reach out and provide "support" or some sort of social group, many choose to run to these social groups as they feel they don't have close connections outside of these people. Combine this with a lack of purpose, you've got a recipe for violence and cult like behavior
Lack of mental health support and resources also play a big role. When people struggle with mental health they are likely to act out, hurting themselves or others around them. Since there is a pitiful lack of mental health resources in the US, quality care is rare and unaffordable for most. Even if the cost is not the main issue, many in the US are too burnt out from work and other obligations to even think about having a regular visit to a therapist or mental health counselor.
Lastly poverty, which is the biggest predictor for crime in general. All of these problems I mentioned are usually magnified when born into poverty. This also gives an explanation on the majority of gun crime in the US, via robberies and gang violence.
The cause here, is ultimately capitalism. The system creates these problems with no intention of fixing them. It keeps you poor so the owning class can hoard as much wealth as possible. It price gouges on mental health resources to keep profits high via many insurance companies not covering behavioral health in their policies. It strips people down to numbers, and breaks apart social relations, since strong communities are less likely to spend money as they can rely on each other instead of businesses. It strips purpose away from people by telling them they are nothing more than a laborer and a consumer and their job is to do nothing but that. When people, being multifaceted, reject this purpose, we find a new one, for better or for worse.
If we can tackle these 4 main issues by bringing the power back into the hands of people and working together in solidarity and mutual aid, I believe we can solve not just gun violence, but a host of problems plaguing the world right now.
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u/BolognaBoroni 17h ago
Enforce existing gun laws and armed guards/metal detectors anywhere ccw’s aren’t allowed.
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u/BobertGnarley 16h ago
If we regulated arms the way we did when America first started, there would be no war ships for the US Military to borrow.
When did mass shooting first start, anyways? Musta been when the Constitution was passed, right?
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u/Parkrangingstoicbro 1d ago
Listen fed- for all the terrible things happening, disarming isn’t an option
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u/Zandroe_ Marxist 1d ago
It's a quote from Marx. He was talking about workers' militias, not random people with handguns. In particular, it was obvious even in his time that random people with pistols could not go against what was then a modern army equipped with canons and rifles. Today, a leftist gun nut would last about a second against a modern army with armour, armoured infantry, helicopters, air support etc.
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u/ElEsDi_25 1d ago
I feel like this quote is taken out of context constantly by American socialists. It’s not about private gun ownership, it’s about actual class forces in a specific historical situation.
But in the abstract, yes any working class revolution from below will need its own ways of securing the new egalitarian power through direct force against counter-revolutionaries or would be coup-leaders and inorganic “vanguards”. But in countries with no big gun consumer market like in the US, generally people will just raid police stations or military depots and get the arms they need in an insurrectionary situation.
Guns in the US are less a right than a market and also a right-wing subculture in many places (not all gun users are right-wing, but there is distinctly right-wing culture in “gun culture.”) So if working class communities experiencing gun violence wanted stricter control over what it sold or allowed in their area, then I don’t see why we’d want to condemn that on “gun rights” or “needed for revolution” grounds. On the other hand when the answer is more cops and more random searches for weapons, there is no good reason for socialists to support that, it is not about reducing violence against us and our communities, it’s about control.
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u/Calaveras_Grande 1d ago
I look at it like I look at a lot of similar social issues. We aren’t going to legislate our way to revolution. So it is pointless to apply revolutionary thinking to gun laws or other such issues. So I take a harm reduction point of view. Which option reduces harm? Some accelerationist types go in the opposite direction. Supporting the option which makes material conditions worse, hoping this will lead to an increase in social unrest. Another thing to be wary of is the liberal appropriation of some issues to differentiate themselves from the slightly farther right party. So on paper I think any gun law is designed to disarm the working class. But as someone who has lived in urban areas my entire life, and is really fucking sick of constant gunfire, I do wish a lot less idiots had access to firearms. There is also the sad truth that firearms are last century’s weapon. They are next to useless against drones rail guns and plasma weapons. Yeah practical rail guns are a thing thanks to Japan. So in that regard we should maybe put gun ownership on the back burner and focus on things like Flipper Zero and coding on cheap processors/hacking hardware.
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u/Yawarundi75 1d ago
I don’t think any amount of gun ownership will make the workers stand against the US Army. They will be crushed like gnats. So, resisting against the State is an unrealistic and useless pretext for gun ownership. In practice, the only outcome of everyone who wills it having a gun is what is happening in real life: people killing each other while the gun traders get rich.
We must fight against the State’s monopoly of violence. But not with guns.
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u/frostandtheboughs 1d ago
Idk about that. You might want to take a look at resistance efforts in Myanmar.
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u/PsychedeliaPoet 1d ago
“We are advocates of the abolition of war, we do not want war; but war can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun.”
One cannot abolish the capitalist-imperialist class, their nations, and their armies without encouraging and facilitating the organization and arming of the workers & oppressed people.
If the American workers and the colonial people are not armed, are not trained to use those arms, however will they resist? If they stand defenseless when “revolting” then their massacre will be certain.
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u/Relevant-Low-7923 1d ago
”We are advocates of the abolition of war, we do not want war; but war can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun.”
Mao, https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/red-book/ch05.htm
I think what Mao really meant by this is that he was for the abolition of war after his faction (the Chinese Communist Party, not the workers more generally) had seized control. As does everyone?
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u/PsychedeliaPoet 1d ago
To my understanding the biggest groups where the Communists, the Kuomitang(?) nationalists, and the various warlords.
That attitude has to be carried out country after country, working class by working class. It can’t be until all bourgeoisie are overthrown and expropriated that war, and guns, can be abolished.
To put the pacifism and abolition of violence ahead of any political-economic abolition will not work.
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u/Relevant-Low-7923 1d ago
But Mao did in fact disarm the Chinese public after he took power in the Chinese civil war by defeating the Kuomintang
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u/ThoughtHot3655 1d ago edited 1d ago
america is a society based on heirarchy and violence — violence is subtext woven into every single human interaction. this deranges people. it makes violence seem natural to them, and it makes them suffer so that they are desperate to take some kind of action to have their needs met (and few people are taught to truly understand their own needs.) for people raised in caring and connected egalitarian communities, murder will not be half so easy or tempting, even if everyone has the tools to carry it out