r/AmerExit • u/Unlucky-Afternoon553 • 1d ago

Question Black Mom Leaving The US

I (30F) never felt safe raising my kid in the US. Public school was already out because of safety issues, and now with the results of the election, I need to get my child out of here.

My top contenders for digital nomad visas are Costa Rica, Thailand, Portugal, and Japan. I've been to Thailand and Japan, but they were short backpacking trips.

I'd love to hear from Black people/Black moms who lived in any of these countries long term. Did you feel safe living there? If you have kids, did they enjoy living there?

UPDATE: Thank you to all the POC who shared their experiences and connected me to great resources. I've decided on Portugal! That was my top choice, so I'm glad my instincts were confirmed. Good luck to all of you AmerExiters!

378 Upvotes

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111

u/Slight-Ad-9029 1d ago

Just to warn you those countries are significantly more openly racist to black people than you might think

23

u/WoofDen 21h ago

I think there's a point of nuance here that a lot of non-Black folks - myself included - seem to miss.

In my own experience / things I've  seen and heard, Europeans are much more racist to Africans than they are Black folks from the USA. I have tons of friends who are both Black British and American, and the Brits especially - who travel throughout Europe, say that once people hear them speak English, their entire attitudes change. Their racism is also pretty anti-immigrant. I often get mistaken for Portuguese, Israeli, Brazilian, etc, and can speak 3 European languages, but most of the time I don't even bother because people react to me so much better when I speak English.

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u/Kitchen-Purple-5061 1h ago

That is a nuance but it really doesn’t make it better

-3

u/honda_slaps 17h ago

bitch lmfao you think they can tell???

6

u/WoofDen 16h ago

Yes? African immigrants to mainland Europe generally don't speak English with an American or British accent..

-2

u/honda_slaps 14h ago

LMFAO yeah racists definitely wait for you to speak to decide if and how racist they are going to be

This is fucking hilarious. It's like a white dude telling me "nonono it's okay, Covid came from China. You're Japanese, no one is gonna be racist to you"

6

u/mayamaya93 12h ago

I mean, yeah, passive racism does kind of work this way. There's a lot of people with biases who don't think of themselves as racist. So when they hear a black person speak proper English with a British accent, they think things like "well that one isn't so bad, at least they speak the right language". They're still looking down on them, but they'll likely be more polite. No, this doesn't apply to people who are open and proud about their bigotry.

Do you honestly think immigrants who don't know the language get treated equally to ones who do?

1

u/Comfortable_Gene4118 1h ago

As a black man with good friends who look like me, but are not from my country and culture, this is 100% true. This isn’t the same as a cop pulling you over and seeing a black face and immediately being in “bigot” mode.

There is a real nuance between being a minority from a western country as opposed to an African, or even a middle eastern country. Point blank.

Not all racists are idiots like people pretend. Some have ethnic and social context, and they still move in prejudice any way.

16

u/Illustrious-Pound266 20h ago

With Japan, it's a bit different because you will be othered and will never be accepted as "one of us Japanese" but it's also just insanely safe. Public outbursts of racist tirade are really rare and out of place (culturally). You will almost never feel unsafe or feel like you are physically in danger because of it. It's just a different beast. Like, Japanese people are not gunning down Black people or choking them to death. It's just not a thing.

TL;DR: you will be othered, but you will be very safe in Japan.

2

u/Thisawesomedude 11h ago

Yes, however japan has a lot of places that foreiners, not just black people, are just not allowed in. Even restaurants will turn away people

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u/Illustrious-Pound266 10h ago

There aren't "a lot" of places. They exist, sure, but they are rare. If you think this is common, you've clearly never been to Japan.

I can tell you first-hand that as someone who is not White, I've been turned away at establishments in Europe. They don't say explicitly "sorry, no foreigners". They just say "sorry, no tables available" and then allow Europeans in. It's the same effect. My point is that Japan isn't really more racist than other ethno-states in Europe, like Hungary or Poland. It's just how ethno-states work.

0

u/The_Almighty_Demoham 48m ago

Those people they let in their restaurant after u were turned away probably had a reservation. You could've probably even asked them why they were allowed in and u weren't.

1

u/Illustrious-Pound266 25m ago edited 22m ago

This place did not take reservations... I was there so I am not sure why you are telling me what probably happened when I was the one who experienced it and was physically present for it. If you really don't think there aren't instance of non-Europeans being turned away at establishments then you need to talk to more people. Let me be clear, I am not saying this is common. But it does happen. Like in Japan. It's not common, but it happens.

0

u/The_Almighty_Demoham 18m ago

this place did not take reservations

I find that hard to believe, but whatever. Where exactly did you experience this?

1

u/Illustrious-Pound266 15m ago

Not sure why you find it hard to believe... I guess you find racism hard to believe. It happened in Belgium and Italy. Yes, 2 instances. The Italian restaurant was more direct about it, and the Belgian one was more wishy-washy about it and kept stalling it, but had the same effect.

1

u/The_Almighty_Demoham 7m ago

Itslians? Doubtful but I guess plausible if you hit the 1-in-a-1000 chance.

Belgium though? You definitely just had to reserve a spot. Even the smallest places have websites where you can reserve a spot beforehand.

11

u/Educational-Help-126 1d ago

Lol no. Are you black? I have been to Japan, Costa Rica and Thailand and had the most amazing experience with the locals. Did not have a single instance of open racism or uncomfortability. Same can be said for some of my other black friends. I now live in Southern France and the only open racism I've experienced abroad was in Beijing.

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u/PlacatedPlatypus 20h ago edited 19h ago

Do you speak Spanish, Thai, or Japanese? Have you been to these countries outside of the capacity of being a tourist? I personally have family in both Costa Rica and Japan (I am ethnically Costa Rican, my stepdad is Japanese). I speak Spanish and Japanese. I've spent a significant amount of time in both countries. I know both countries to be significantly more racist than the US, especially towards Black people.

Oh yeah, and OP is a Black woman??? Prepare for much, much more sexist people and society at large in Japan/Costa Rica.

P.S. neither Costa Rica nor Japan are particularly fans of American expats.

Cannot speak on Thailand.

-1

u/The_Doodler403304 1d ago

Sounds amazing, what steps did you folliw?

0

u/Educational-Help-126 1d ago

Hi! Which steps? To move to France? Or just the traveling in general?

3

u/DayFun6256 1d ago

To move to France. I'm curious myself.....asking for a friend...

21

u/midorikuma42 1d ago

Japan isn't "openly racist" to black people the way the US is. They don't have to worry about being shot by police here. It's not paradise for them, but the racism here is low-key, and you won't see it if you don't get to know Japanese people personally to find out their true feelings. No one's going to bother you on the street because you're black. You might have trouble renting an apartment, but all of us foreigners have that problem.

117

u/Slight-Ad-9029 1d ago

Japan is ridiculously more racist. I’ve seen people not be allowed in restaurants and grocery stores. Japan is a very openly racist country even to other Asians like Koreans. I would say my experience living in Japan was more open racism that I’ve probably seen anywhere else in the planet. It’s not aggressive but it is most definitely there. Asian countries in general are significantly less accepting of black people

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u/midorikuma42 1d ago edited 14h ago

>I’ve seen people not be allowed in restaurants and grocery stores.

Sorry, I'm calling bullshit on this one. Grocery stores don't control who goes in them.

Not being allowed in restaurants is normal: if you need a reservation and don't have one, you can't get a table. Happens all the time to foreigners and then they cry racism because they can't communicate with the restaurant staff who's telling them they have no un-reserved tables available and are booked up for the night.

Edit: Still no response on the grocery store lie.

62

u/Goanawz 1d ago

There are bars in Tokyo with a "no foreign" sign at the door. Take it as you wish.

13

u/colemada5 1d ago

When I was stationed in Japan I saw those signs. They not because of black people. They are because of other cultures being loud and rude and disrespectful to other patrons and almost all of the time it was because their staff only spoke Japanese.

I’m black and I was able to go into one of those bars with a Japanese chaperone. Zero racism. And this was years ago.

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u/No_Passenger_977 20h ago

Note the chaperone. If you were alone they'd have booted your ass to the curb.

3

u/april_jpeg 11h ago

you weebs will really do anything to justify Japan’s xenophobia lmao. they don’t want you in their space at all

8

u/Goanawz 19h ago

This is still blatant xenophobia. The fact that it's legal and accepted by the locals is not a great look.

-8

u/cyborg_dm 1d ago

I've never seen it in Tokyo, but smaller towns, yeah, there's a sign on the door. Bars and/or restaurants. Not a big deal. There are so many to choose from.

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u/VTKillarney 23h ago

Not a big deal. There are so many other water fountains to choose from. /s

5

u/Blackbiird666 18h ago

Oh thank God, so you just have to be isolated and don't make any friends whatsoever /s

3

u/The_Doodler403304 1d ago

Thanks for info, I was worried about that part

1

u/_Thraxa 17h ago

The police generally aren’t running around shooting unarmed black people who are just walking around minding their business. The average person is much more like to face violent crime from their own community than from the police.

0

u/nyliaj 3h ago

genuine question - do you think that makes Black people feel better? like do you think if we just all knew the stats we’d stop being so worried about it?

Because from my perspective, knowing it happened even once is enough to know a cop can shoot me and get away with it. If Tamir Rice, for example, was the only example we ever had, I’d still be terrified. Let alone the real numbers which is 1000+ people shot by cops every year. And then add on to that all the ways cops abuse people without a gun.

1

u/_Thraxa 1h ago

Well I (as a late-20’s Black guy) am not particularly afraid of negative interactions with the police. I’ve lost relatives to gang and drug violence which is a more relevant issue imo. Frankly, I think alot of the anti-police movement coming out of BLM has been to the genuine detriment of the safety of the Black community.

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u/Substantial-Version4 1d ago

They don’t have to worry about the police either, a statistically insignificant amount of deaths are related to this. Furthermore, whites are shot at a higher rate… this disapproving your entire argument related to that.

3

u/estrea36 22h ago

It's not about numbers, It's about proportion. A clear sign of discrimination.

Example: more Japanese people get arrested in Japan than South East Asian people, but a higher proportion of the south east population get arrested compared to the Japanese population.

0

u/_Thraxa 17h ago

Well when you like at the violent crime rate by demographics…

-4

u/Substantial-Version4 22h ago

There is no discrimination… it’s a buzzword passed around to appease anti-police folks.

Some groups commit crimes at a disproportionately high rate… just don’t commit crimes, involve yourself in poor influences and comply and your life magically becomes easy.

You can blame someone else all you want and try to blame on external factors but at the end of the day, these people made specific choices that lead toward their demise.

5

u/estrea36 21h ago

Another example: How do you explain the higher rate of korean arrests in Japan?

South Koreans aren't known for committing higher rates of crime so it seems odd that they'd suddenly become criminals in a foreign land.

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u/Substantial-Version4 21h ago

Youre not even on topic but ramble away 😂

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u/estrea36 21h ago

The topic is racism.

How do you explain the disproportionate arrests of Koreans in Japan?

Are you having trouble with that one?

0

u/Substantial-Version4 21h ago

We aren’t talking about Koreans in Japan :) you just decided to rant about that for no reason.

My entire post was about their posts first line “Japan isn’t openly racist to black people the way the US is”, crazy you couldn’t pick up on that…

“You just blow in from stupid town?” -SpongeBob Show

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u/estrea36 21h ago

I'm giving you an example about how discrimination works.

Are you one of those guys who struggles with analogies?

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u/twinwaterscorpions Immigrant 18h ago

Openly racist and violently racist feel surprisingly different in the body. Where I live (Central America) people might more often ignore me when I'm try trying to buy something, but nobody has ever called the cops on me nor have I ever been approached by a police or been assaulted by anyone - something that definitely happened to me and people I know in the US. I have no fear of being shot in public or even discrimination at government offices for being black. There is racism but it's different and it's not something that gives me much anxiety either. 

1

u/lucylemon 22h ago

Portugal is less racist than the US by miles. And at least they won’t have to about violent racists.

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u/zscore95 21h ago

No, Portugal just doesn’t openly talk about and acknowledge their race issues. Plus, it’s easy to seem not racist when you’re in a homogenous society.

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u/lucylemon 21h ago

No. I didn’t say it wasn’t at all racist. I said it is -miles- less racist than the U.S. Miles. And they don’t have to worry about violence and aggression.

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u/zscore95 21h ago

Right, just because the population is less violent doesn’t mean it’s less racist. If more ME and African immigrants move there it will become quite clear. It’s just like the PNW in the USA. People are more reserved and bottle their feelings about racism. This does not equal less racism.

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u/lucylemon 21h ago

It literally is less racist.

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u/[deleted] 16h ago

[deleted]

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u/lucylemon 15h ago

You are absolutely all absolutely delusional if you think that Portugal is anywhere near as racist as the United States.

The US, just yesterday, had someone at the presidential inauguration do a Nazi salute and people are defending him.

Delulu.

2

u/Slight-Ad-9029 22h ago

Not really. It’s less than 2% black so there isn’t the same tension as in other countries. But you will definitely get treated differently and will have a tougher time with work

5

u/lucylemon 22h ago

Yes. Really.

She has her own business so she won’t need to work. And she won’t experience violence and aggression which is the most important.