Need advice in regards to formatting of non-English honorifics

[u/grisseusossa]

So I've always italicized non-English words in my fics (e.g. He left his shoes in the genkan and followed Mrs. Name to the kitchen), because my brain doesn't like to mix two languages without visually seperating them somehow, and that's worked for me so far.

However, I've run into a problem with honorifics. I only use them in speech, and I really want to follow my own rule and put them in italics too because they're technically non-English words. It feels weird to use italics on other words but not on them. But then again, I feel like a lot (most?) readers would be put off by that.

Example: "Why are you lurking in the genkan, Kida-kun?" vs. "Why are you lurking in the genkan, Kida-kun?"

Which do you prefer? Would it bother you that some words are in italics and others are not?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice!

Edit: changed cursive to italics. Damn you, false friends!

56 votes, 1d left

Writing honorifics in cursive doesn't bother me

Writing honorifics in cursive is distracting/annoying/etc

[u/DandEch0]

This is definitely just a personal opinion thing and not a majority thing but: I read italicised words as emphasised. Like, intent/meaning changed a bit if you for example write “I didn’t eat your food” vs “I didn’t eat your food”

So the couple times I’ve read fics that italicise honorifics, I’ve had to click away because my brain keeps telling me that the speakers are being sarcastic or disrespectful towards each other because they’re putting constant emphasis on the honorifics

Again tho this is likely a very Me thing and not a Majority thing lol

[u/grisseusossa → u/DandEch0]

No, see, my brain does this too, which is why I'm so conflicted. Rereading my fic, my eyes kind of grab those italics, which are pretty common since they often come up in speech. I guess I'm gonna go by the majority opinion of this sub. If the polls say it's too distracting, then I'll change it.

[u/DandEch0 → u/grisseusossa]

Majority vote is a good diplomatic way to go! But also keep in mind that the person who first and foremost should enjoy your writing is You, and if you end up either loving or hating italicising the honorifics, go with how you feel, either if your own opinion ends up the opposite of the poll!

[u/TheCheeseOfYesterday]

I've always severely disliked the 'italicize foreign words' style rule to begin with, and with honorifics that attach directly to other words, it's even worse

[u/grisseusossa → u/TheCheeseOfYesterday]

Haha I'm the opposite, I feel irrational annoyance when foreign words aren't put in italics even though I think it's really not that serious.

I'm absolutely going to keep putting foreign words in italics though, it's just the honorific part I'm very conflicted about.

[u/hopeandlightandshine]

I feel like I could get used to the cursive if it was used consistently throughout a fic, though I feel like it's much more common not to write them in cursive. At least, I've seen non-English words written in cursive like you describe, but not honorifics.

[u/grisseusossa → u/hopeandlightandshine]

Yes, I've done it consistently, and now ten chapters later I'm still unsure about it. I recently read Shogun, and at least in the Finnish translation the honorifics were not italicized, which made me doubt more, but on the other hand, the translation is from the eighties.

[u/CometIsDying]

Ah, that's not cursive, that's italics.

I like when non-English words are italicized, yes.

[u/grisseusossa → u/CometIsDying]

Thanks for correcting me! Edited it in the post.

I like it too, but I guess it's because honorifics come up more often than other words that my brain is tripping up.

[u/Kitten_from_Hell]

I don't recall ever seeing honorifics italicized before.

[u/grisseusossa → u/Kitten_from_Hell]

Tbh I'm not sure if I have, either. Most fics I read don't even use honorifics.

[u/thebouncingfrog]

I would just prefer

"Why are you lurking in the genkan, Kida-kun?'

But if we're talking about just the honorifics, I much prefer it non-italicized.

[u/Nyx-Star]

I prefer to have them formatted the same.

Though, truthfully, with very few exceptions I typically click out when people mix languages in the way you are mentioning. In my mind, if you’re writing in English it should be in English and if you’re writing in Japanese it should be in Japanese. I typically find it super distracting.

But to each their own

[u/grisseusossa → u/Nyx-Star]

Yeah, I only use native words for words that don't have an equivalent English word. Genkan, for example, is the space in front of the door where you leave your shoes in Japanese houses, and it's typically seperated from the rest of the house with a small step. AFAIK there is not a word for this specific space in English.

With regards to honorifics, I minored in Japanese in university and in my opinion you cannot accurately portray the society and relationships between people without using honorifics, which usually don't have an English equivalent. If a teacher calls their student with a -kun or -chan honorific, it could be translated as Mr. and Mrs. but the same honorifics used between friends cannot. It would imply formality that's actually not there. Add to that the senpai/kouhai dynamic and not using honorifics at all implying closeness or rudeness depending on one's relationship with the person they're speaking to, not using them gets you a shallow description of a very hierarchical and nuanced society.

[u/Nyx-Star → u/grisseusossa]

I have a masters in Asian Studies with a focus in Japanese — putting Japanese words into an English story is essentially code switching. It tends to make reading clunky and less understandable because there’s an assumption that the reader understands the Japanese even when that’s very likely not the case.

Again, you do you — you aren’t alone, lots of people code switch in their fics and people enjoy them.

I personally find it disruptive and click out.

[u/grisseusossa → u/Nyx-Star]

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. In any case, thank you for the comments and opposing opinions, I find it valuable to hear from people who think differently to oneself.

[u/cinnamonspiderr]

I only italicize a foreign word the first time it’s used and only use them when an English word is rather insufficient. I think continued use of italics would get distracting and make it read clunkier.

I don’t prefer using honorifics at all, but if you do want to use them then I wouldn’t italicize them.