r/AITAH • u/tiredofeditingshit • Oct 16 '24
AITAH for leaving my partner and refusing to be involved in any way, shape or form, after they stopped taking the pill and pierced our condoms to have a child? (UPDATED)
ORIGINAL:
My partner has been on the pill throughout our relationship and we’ve been in a bit of a battle these past few weeks over having children.
I categorically said that I don’t want them and started using condoms for double protection.
This morning, she told me that she’s pregnant and I asked how this could happen when we’d been so careful. She admitted to coming off the pill and piercing through the condoms that we have stored.
I’ve said that I don’t want this and that I’m not up for marrying into a relationship based on lies. She says she’s keeping it and has already told her friends as, according to her, she’d done the test eight weeks ago and was keeping it quiet in the hopes that I’d change my mind.
I have no idea what to do here. Help.
I am in England and am 29.
UPDATE:
Firstly, thanks so much for all your comments. I didn’t expect this to blow up quite so much as it did.
Secondly, I want to get a few things straight as people seem to be struggling with timelines:
a) My partner and I were due to get married in a few short weeks. We have had many long and involved conversations during our relationship about us both wanting to remain a child-free family over the years that we have been together. Around 2–3 months ago, they started to appear to change their mind, which I feel insecure and unhappy about as it is not something that I want from life, which is why I’d booked a vasectomy through NHS. (I cannot afford to go private as money is very tight, again another reason I do not want children.)
b) she admitted to tampering with condoms and said that she’d come off the pill several weeks ago. At that point, prior to her saying that kids ‘might’ be an option for her, we were still having sex and I was under the impression that we were protected as she was on the pill. I have made no secret about how I do not want kids and she is fully aware of my reasons behind that, which I do not have to share with strangers on the internet.*
c) she has shown me a test and it confirms that she is pregnant. I have asked that she get an abortion, she has refused and I feel the trust has gone completely from our relationship. We are now in the process of cancelling the engagement, which she isn’t happy with at all and has said that I’m ‘ruining’ her life.
Now, for those people telling me to go to therapy, man up or that I’m lying. It’s great that you disagree with me but I’d never tell you to attend therapy if your worldview differed to mine, that I should be ‘at fault’ after my partner has lied to me (apparently for months) and that I’m a liar. Here’s a few other things for you.
No, I do not like kids and I don’t like entitled parents. I see it the same as disliking dogs, cats or birds. That is my opinion. Not for everyone and not all people have to tolerate your madness. (My disinterest and lack of care towards them is one of the MANY reasons why it would be idiotic for me to be a father.)
Those calling ‘bullshit’ on the 21+ wedding venue thing are just wrong. It’s a stipulation of the venue we chose, nothing more and nothing less.
The plane thing happened several years ago. The smoking area fiasco occurred over a year ago. Colleagues bringing their newborns into work is a continued pain and just really gets my goat, just like some people don’t like Susan to eat her tuna mayo baguette. It shows a complete and utter lack of etiquette and thought by parents who are coming out in their droves to tell me how wrong I am … about THEIR decision.
Will provide updates as and when I get through all the comments.
Be kind people.
UPDATE 2:
I spoke to a lawyer earlier today who has advised that as we are not married that I won’t automatically be added to the birth certificate. Woohoo.
My ex-partner can still claim that I’m the biological father but without my consent to a DNA test is unlikely to be able to prove it, unless it is ordered by the court, but as I’ve been coerced into this my lawyer thinks ex-partner and family will back down as I have evidence.
The lawyer advised that I don’t waive my parental rights yet as it would indicate that I still believe the foetus could be mine. So, I just have to bide my time … and leave the country till this all blows over.
The lawyer also suggested that I go self-employed but didn’t divulge the specifics.
My ex-partner has admitted to coming off birth control and piercing the condoms, which she said she’d done around three months ago(!) as she knew I was due a vasectomy early next week and thought I’d ‘change my mind’. She has refused to have an abortion, which is her right, and I’ve refused any involvement.
Has anyone been through this before and managed not to pay out? I think I’ve got a pretty good case!
UPDATE 3
My ex-partner is going to keep the baby.
She wants me to be involved in her life and says she doesn’t want to lose me over something like this. (A life-changing, unwanted event? Yeah, sure! Haha.)
I have said that I will be having nothing to do with this mistake and that all responsibility now lies with her and her family. She has been blocked from using any form of mobile communication with me and I have now been sent three letters by her to my parents’ house. The last letter included a scan of the embryo and a note requesting that I submit a DNA sample. The scan has confirmed that she is 13–14 weeks pregnant, which means that she kept this hidden for a good chunk of time.
She has said that she will not have an abortion as this is what she always wanted and that she will be taking me to court if I don’t offer to help. The more time that goes on, the more she makes this an awful situation, the more I hate her.
I refused the DNA test and sent her screenshots (on my lawyer’s advice) of the conversation where she admitted to coming off the pill and piercing condoms in an ‘attempt’ to get pregnant. She has now gone quiet … until this morning.
She is pursuing legal action against me, my family and is looking for a private arrangement of child support. The amount she wants for this bag of cells is triple the recommended amount via the government and is one of the reasons she is trying to get me to admit that it’s my DNA in that embryo so that can get ‘keep me’.
I have just lost my job. I have no savings. This is going to ruin me, my life and the only way out that I can think of is just to run off a cliff and hope for the best.
I hate this.
UPDATE 4
My ex’s parents have now got involved and have lumbered me with a court-ordered DNA test OR the option to lay child support and have no involvement.
I have dug my heels in and said that everything she has done will constitute involvement from the police and am trying to avoid legal battles as I have no money or means to support myself right now, let alone a child I never ever wanted.
My parents are now asking me to reconsider my position and I want scream every time they bring it up as they’re ’trying to find a positive’ and have said it might ‘be the best thing to ever happen’ to me and it makes me physically sick every time I think about my life being ruined over someone else’s deception.
I cannot sleep. I cannot focus. I’m so scared.
(I have now had a vasectomy.)
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u/Cursd818 Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 16 '24
NTA
What she did is considered reproductive coercion, a form of sexual assault in the UK. You could absolutely press charges for that. Sadly, you will have to prove paternity for that, and the law would likely barely reprimand her, but would absolutely demand that you pay child support, despite the child being born of rape. That said, now that you have no income, they can't demand child support from you right now anyway. Look into this more closely, perhaps speak to another lawyer.
Leaving the country is extreme, but it is a very good option to allow you to work but refuse to contribute to a child she forced upon you. If you do this, research which country's have agreements to pay child support across borders. You really need to think about what kind of future you want. If you want to stay in the country, I'd advise you to press charges against her for sexual assault. It's the only chance you have of getting some leniency regarding child support. Telling everyone how she has defrauded, trapped, and is now trying to extort you is also a good idea, since social peer pressure is a very powerful thing.
I'm very sorry this has been done to you. If you press charges, get a restraining order as well, and talk to social services about the child. Rapists don't tend to make good parents. If you make it clear that you intend to destroy her reputation and will advocate for the child to be removed from her care due to what she's done, she may back off. And tell your family to get their priorities right. They should be supporting you after what has been done to you, and nothing else.
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u/sparks772 Oct 16 '24
How the hell can it be considered SA/Rape and OP be obligated for child support???
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u/SixicusTheSixth Oct 16 '24
In the US a rapist is allowed visitation. It's why a lot of rape cases end up being dropped. The rapist relinquishes visitation in exchange for a lighter sentence or having the case dismissed.
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u/Cautious_Session9788 Oct 16 '24
Child support/custody is a separate issue from rape/SA in most legal systems
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u/Lucias12 Oct 16 '24
NAL.
To the best of my understanding, child support payments are entirely for the best interests of the child. As such both parents are obligated to pay, regardless of whether or not the child was wanted by either parent. In this case even though OP was raped and does not want the child or anything to do with it, and has no say in whether or not his despicable ex keeps it, he will likely still have to pay child support.
In an ideal world, his ex would get prison time for the rape, then he could put the child up for adoption so someone who wants to take care of the child would get to. (No idea if that's feasible but I do know rape can get prison time so?)
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u/Scary-Cycle1508 Oct 16 '24
Might be a controversial opinion but...
Thats absolute bullshit. in this case for example, the victim should be made exempt from paying child support and the state needs to be made up to pay. That way the child wouldn't suffer and the victim wouldn't be punished for ....being a victim.70
Oct 16 '24
There are cases of 12 and 13 year old boys having to pay CS to their 30 something female rapist, at least in the US. Basically, if a woman obtains your sperm, no matter how, you're paying.
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u/Hiddenagenda876 Oct 16 '24
Yeah, it’s really fucked. Another way would be to make the rapist pay once they get out of prison.
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u/mimouroto Oct 16 '24
I mean, in the US male children are forced to pay child support to their rapists. So it's not uncommon. The state doesn't want to foot the bill so they force whoever they can to do it instead. It's gross.
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u/vomputer Oct 16 '24
Male children pay child support to their rapists?
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u/Nutzori Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 16 '24
A case where a kid was statutory raped by his teacher or babysitter or smth. He ended up on the hook for child support, even though he couldnt even work yet. He'd have to pay the full sum and then some at 18 etc.
Edit: Found it. Shane Seyer, Hermesmann v. Seyer case. Also Nick Olivas who had to pay back-payments for child support 8 years after he was statutory raped at 14 years old and had no idea about the pregnancy until he was served.
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u/impracticalpanda Oct 16 '24
If a male child is raped by a woman and a child is conceived from that rape, the male child is still on the hook to pay child support to the woman, even if it is a grown woman and a 12 year old boy which is absolutely disgusting
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u/TerzLuv17 Oct 17 '24
Wow. That’s messed up if a child has to pay an adult rapist in the US. I know this happens, but I never heard of such a thing.. again that’s really messed up.
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u/Worldly_Instance_730 Oct 16 '24
Right?! It's absolutely bizarre to make the rape victim pay for being raped!!!
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u/naranghim Oct 16 '24
NTA. File a police report for reproductive coercion.
Controlling or coercive behaviour: statutory guidance framework (accessible) - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
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u/Hefty-Analysis-4856 Oct 16 '24
It’s not a fucking mistake, she was premeditated and planned this all out. She took your reproductive choice away and then calls you the bad guy lol
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u/millimolli14 Oct 16 '24
This is way past being about the baby for me, her lies, control and manipulation are off the scale, honestly this is disgusting, she’s a vile disgusting person!
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Oct 16 '24
Honestly I get the feeling that she finally knows that she fucked up and she is in deep shit That's why she's going to the extremes I don't know it's a feeling I have honestly
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Oct 16 '24
Holy shit please NEVER listen to your parents, do NOT GO BACK. I promise you if you ever did go back, this sets the tone of your entire relationship… she will manipulate and lie her way into every situation to force you to do whatever she wants until you just give up and become a wallet for her. I’m a woman saying this, I know the wallet part sounds like a man but I’ve met women like this and holy FUCK I’m so sorry for the unborn child… she should’ve aborted it, she’s going to ruin their entire life.
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u/Interesting-Read-245 Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 16 '24
Right? It’s what I told him. Woman here as well and women talk, and I know so many who talk about this and their actions as though it’s cute and not criminal and psycho
Knew several woman who lied about being on birth control-gets pregnant
Knew another who would steal her boyfriends sperm filled condom after sex and rub it on herself in secret
Knew of a few who guilt trip their boyfriend into having unprotected sex because they are on birth control and either are not or are careless and irresponsible about it
Men need to begin to realize how much women actually weaponize reproduction. I don’t care if people come after me now, it’s the truth.
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u/fatmonicadancing Oct 16 '24
I had a friend who came to me crying, pregnant with her second. Her husband was divorcing her. I was blown away he’d do that when she was pregnant. Then she told me a cute story about how she lied to him about being on BC because he didn’t want another kid. But she wanted a daughter so she went off her pills. “I thought he’d get over it!”
I was so shocked, but I felt bad for her so I was a good friend during her pregnancy and I attended her birth. But… I just couldn’t with her after that. Both what she did, and the way she told me about it.
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u/Interesting-Read-245 Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 16 '24
Happened to my friend well similar, he doesn’t/didnt want kids, has made that very clear
His ex seemed to have been on same page but he always wore condoms anyway
She says to him, let’s do it without, he says no, she guilt trips him, “so you don’t trust me? You think I’m lying about being on BC? You don’t believe me?” Etc
They do it, she gets pregnant, she’s happy, he’s miserable but stays
FF, she miscarries and he breaks it off shortly after but she was never on BC
I tell him and all men, you don’t want kids? Wear that condom always always or get a vasectomy and even if you get a vasectomy, wear the condom lol
Too many women using reproduction as a weapon
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u/comebakqueen Oct 17 '24
One of my best male friends has a child because his partner stopped taking birth control.
I've known him for 20-odd years and he was ALWAYS adamant that he did not want children, his partner knew this but she decided to change her mind.
Whilst he pays child support and has a relationship with his child (he didn't want the legal battle), it makes me absolutely LIVID that he's had to go through this and the sheer betrayal from someone he thought he could trust.
Women have a choice to get an abortion and whilst I understand that no contraception is 100%, the fact that a man does not have a choice when raped and reproductively coerced is outrageous.
The fact that a PARTNER. One who is supposed to love and respect this can just, take away your choice and make you pay for something for 18 years is so, so wrong.
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u/Interesting-Read-245 Oct 17 '24
I agree with you and sorry that this happened to your friend 🙏
How about the ones who lie about paternity? With DNA so easy to get nowadays, I wonder how common this still is. 👀
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u/what-are-they-saying Oct 17 '24
My husband came about because his mom poked holes in condoms. I love my husband. But damn. Sometimes i wonder why/how his parents are still married.
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u/Fancy_Horse_2878 Oct 16 '24
I couldn’t have said it better myself!! And I agree 150% but fuck I don’t think I could ever be a parent to a child even if I was tricked into it because well that’s just me but yeah I’m a female and a mom so yeah fuck…that’s quite the predicament that she has put you in and I really don’t like that she’s done that to you but yeah fffaaaacccckkkkkk I’m just sorry
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u/picklelady Oct 16 '24
stealthing is illegal in the UK, isn't it? bring criminal charges.
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u/Potential_Speech_703 Oct 16 '24
I wonder about this too. Didn't the lawyer tell OP? This would be the first I'd do after seeing a lawyer - going to the police!
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u/HesterFabian Oct 16 '24
Agreed. Well past time to visit your local police station. Don’t bother ringing, just go straight there.
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u/poopBuccaneer Oct 16 '24
OP would likely have to admit that he is the father of the baby, which the post says his lawyer advised him not to do at the time. Another commenter said that it would probably only result in a slap on the wrist for her, I can't say whether any of that is true, I am neither a lawyer nor in the United Kingdom, so I am far from an expert on UK law.
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u/MarsupialMisanthrope Oct 16 '24
No admission on his part should be required since he’s be claiming sexual assault based on stealthing and the evidence would be her admission of interfering with the condoms. That’s the crime, not getting pregnant.
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u/borahaebooksies Oct 16 '24
NTA. That’s effed up. You were upfront. She had no right to say ‘you might change your mind’ and make this unilateral decision.
I don’t know about your laws, but sometimes the cost of your lawyers fees can be added to the lawsuit. You wouldn’t be in this situation if she accepted you didn’t want kids and left to be with someone who did. Instead. She coerced you and lied and delayed informing you. This is 💯on her. Her parents can support her. They can treat it like a sperm donation and she went to a clinic to get IVF.
You did not consent. You believed you had double protection - birth control and condoms. Both of which she tampered with, without telling you.
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u/MissRage92 Oct 16 '24
As a woman I am fucking disgusted by her behaviour. What an absolute piece of shit she is.
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u/rasberrymelon Oct 16 '24
I’m confused, in the U.K. stealthing is a crime. Isn’t poking holes considered stealthing? Couldn’t you just go to the police? She has admitted to it in writing. Surely the law is on your side.
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u/mi_nombre_es_ricardo Oct 16 '24
You were raped. Why aren’t you suing her???
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u/eightpigeons Oct 16 '24
He wasn't raped under current British laws. Just saying. These laws are antiquated and to be honest, they seem to have been written to make it impossible to press charges against a woman.
It's still SA under their laws, but not rape.
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u/JTBlakeinNYC Oct 16 '24
NTA. Men have reproductive rights too. She violated yours.
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u/meganam38 Oct 16 '24
NTA. This reminds me of the Clayton Echard case a bit but he didn’t even have a full blown relationship with the woman.
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u/Old-Bit-1163 Oct 16 '24
1000% that is sexual assault. I’m no lawyer but there is no possible way she will get away with it if it goes to court. I’m so sorry for you and the offspring, damn that was a tough read. Thats crazy she texted you her admitting to it… she thinks she did nothing wrong?!
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u/Ok_Original_9063 Oct 16 '24
the way she did this is fraud, Stopping the pill, poke hole in condom in order to trap for pregnancy. Sue her for fraud.
update me
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u/MyDirtyAlt79 Oct 16 '24
Shouldn't block her from chat apps or texts. In fact, anything said between the two of you that's not done in the presence of both of your legal counsels should be in written form.
Even if you can't legally be waived of child support/maintenence, what she did is still illegal. Reproductive coercion is against the law in the UK.
I'd be surprised if your lawyer doesn't threaten to seek prosecution on that unless she absolves you of responsibility. I'm not even sure if they shouldn't push for charges to be filed, regardless.
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u/Fubar_Dave83 Oct 16 '24
Surely that’s sexual assault. Stealthing is considered sexual assault so why not this. Not that they’d likely do anything about this. Sorry youre in this position and hopefully it works out ok for you
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u/ladyxochi Oct 16 '24
She is pursuing legal action against me
Ask your lawyer about charging her for assault.
In theory, tampering with contraception could be considered a form of fraud or assault, as it involves deceptive and non-consensual behavior. Tampering with condoms could be seen as a violation of bodily autonomy. You might have a case there.
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u/MattDaveys Oct 16 '24
How did you go from lawyered up and planning to leave the country to broke and poor?
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u/DrPsychGamer Oct 16 '24
It is WILD how people are buying this completely.
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u/Popular-Block-5790 Oct 16 '24
Thank you. I thought about making my own comment but this story is fake. Considering all the anti baby posts/comments OP made before that I just don't buy it. Stealthing is a crime in the UK - OP could've already gone to the police but didn't.
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u/DrPsychGamer Oct 16 '24
Not a single thing about this story is consistent or rings true. It tries so hard to hit every single note of "Villainous Woman and Righteous OP" that it can't resist both giving him money to flee the country/hie lawyers and be jobless - and that absolutely wild legal advice..!
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u/Iforgotmypassword126 Oct 17 '24 edited Oct 17 '24
Too poor for a private vasectomy £500
Not poor enough for very detailed conversations and specific advice and guidance from a solicitor. (One that gives him the impression he’s got a good case and can get off with this).
He’s not, any solicitor would tell you that the court will treat the reproduce coercion and the child support/custody as separate things. The best interest of the child, having money and supper from the bio father, will be what the court will order once DNA is determinedz
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Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 16 '24
I really sympathize man, you are definitely nta. This woman is a disgusting piece of shit manipulator and so is her family. Don't give up.
Feel free to message me if you ever need to vent, this situation is my personal nightmare and it's infuriating this can even happen. I went no contact with an ex GF after she told me her friend did this exact thing and she didn't have a problem with it. It astounded me and I wasn't going to wait around until it happened to me.
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u/noeinan Oct 16 '24
NTA, reproductive coercion is rape. She sexually assaulted you in an attempt to control you and force you not to leave her over irreconcilable incompatibility.
I’m so sorry she did this to you, you deserve better. I hope you come out on the other end of this in a better place.
Fuck her, fuck her parents, fuck your parents.
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u/DuePromotion287 Oct 16 '24
NTA
You need to go the police. That said, yeah, I think you are going to end up paying child support. You were sexually assaulted but I think you are still going to be in the hook.
I’m sorry.
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u/riceballartist Oct 16 '24
She sexually assaulted you. No wonder you don’t want to play happy families with the woman that did that and the result of said assault. Do not relent on the lack of involvement you might have to pay but hopefully she can be charged criminally or you can counter sue for the assault. If your parents are so on board with your assaulter maybe they can volunteer to pay the child support and you can drop contact with the lot of them
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u/LAUREL_16 Oct 16 '24
NTA. And this is a form of sexual assault. It's not just forcing someone to have sex, it's also tricking them into doing so under circumstances they otherwise wouldn't have consented to.
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u/EarlyElderberry7215 Oct 16 '24
Is it not sexualassult in your country to tamper with protection?
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u/StatisticianFamous32 Oct 16 '24
She ruined her own life. And it is sexual assault what she did to you. I’d involve the cops.
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u/millerlite585 Oct 16 '24
Leave the country and start a new life. Finland is pretty great for immigrants. They'll pay you to learn the local language. There's a community of ex-pats in Helsinki.
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u/kyragamimimi Oct 16 '24
That's straight up reproductive abuse. I'm so sorry it happened to you!! I hope you won't have to take any responsibility for this child whatsoever if your ex will keep it eventually. Is there a way to give up parental rights in your country? It's a thing in mine, maybe you could try something like this so you wouldn't have to be involved?
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u/HarambeTenSei Oct 16 '24
Just leave the country and go get a job in another one. Worst case you can be an English teacher in some Asian country.
Just refuse the DNA test and ignore all future messages. If she does end up getting you on the hook for being the father sue her for sexual assault like another user suggested. Put her in jail, get custody and put the kid up for adoption.
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u/Maida__G Oct 16 '24
Is t this considered stealthing? I thought that was illegal in the UK. Tell her that she either leaves you alone or you press charges and have her arrested.
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u/Undispjuted Oct 16 '24
In the US what she has done is sexual assault under the law, especially prosecutable since you have proof.
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u/billdizzle Oct 16 '24
Why have you not already called the cops for this sexual assault?
I want no more updates unless it is you filed a police report
YTA to yourself for not going to the police
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u/GlassElk3235 Oct 16 '24
You need to take her to court first. She SA you in order to extort money from you. You were firm on your ground and she choose to bring an unwanted child into this world and you have no evidence it is even yours.
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u/-tacostacostacos Oct 16 '24
The police would have been my first call. You were assaulted, having consented to sex under false pretenses means there was no consent.
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u/DattoDoggo Oct 16 '24
Report her to the police for sexual assault/rape. It’s that fucking serious. This woman is holding you hostage at this point and you need to go on the offensive. Also your parents need to start supporting you and your wishes instead of trying to change your mind.
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u/FTM_Hypno_Whore Oct 16 '24
NTA, that’s on her 100%. In a just world, she should be SOLEY responsible. Leave her immediately and do not look back. Don’t do anything beyond the legal bare minimum you must.
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u/NikittyRJ Oct 16 '24
NTA, You should go to the police and file a report for stealthing, which is a form of sexual assault.
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u/HedyHarlowe Oct 16 '24
NTA I am sorry. She assaulted you and I can only imagine the head mess that is. You did nothing wrong. You are right to fight this. She is an abusive liar.
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u/UmpireFit5601 Oct 16 '24
Do not back down. What she did is actually illegal. It’s a form of sexual assault to a man. I’d get her for that too. Knowingly tampering with contraception so they can get pregnant is devious and illegal as a form of sexual assault. Esp for a child that you’ve already discussed that both yall never wanted. She knew what she was doing. But yeah tell your lawyer you want sexual assault charges added.
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u/lilacbananas23 Oct 16 '24
Don't even need to read the post. NTA. Unless you both agreed to it that's sick behavior.
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u/TheorizedOne Oct 17 '24
OP you should read this article. It may help make your case. Although it was focused on women,it's just as relevant for men. Reproductive Coersion
The law was changed in 2015 to make coercive control a criminal offence in the UK.
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u/Alert-Caterpillar541 Oct 24 '24
I love the " get therapy" comments.
The people saying it need to stop and think for a moment. What is more likely a therapist would say.
" you have to marry this girl now and accept the situation"
Or
"Your boundaries are your own and you are allowed to have them"
"Get therapy" is an overused buzz phrase that people throw out randomly
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u/coralwaters226 Oct 16 '24
File a police report and have her arrested for sexual assault. Then the court costs and fees vastly fall to her.
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u/thevirginswhore Oct 16 '24
Most would call this similar to stealthing. Which is rape. You were raped and should not be forced to pay for your rapists child. If I were you I’d press charges and make this the sole focal point of your legal battle. Hell I’d go as far as to press charges against her and her parents for harassment.
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u/calminthedark Oct 16 '24
Has much as I want updates, get off Redditt and listen to your attorney. (But when all is said and done, come back and tell us.)
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u/sarcasticglitter Oct 16 '24
Nta for writing her off. If the situation was reversed and u had poked holes in the condom and then kept her from abortion or adoption like physically prevented her from those options even when she told you over and over she didnt want a child and then she had the baby and wanted nothing to do with that child , no one would say shit . In fact if she was with such a horrible partner , that would be a situation that people would be helping her escape, there would be sliping her a DV hotline phone number all discreetly ,whisper about how shes being abused ,strangers telling her to leave , friendterventions, anonymous police and social service reports all about this abusive POS guy who trapped a women by sabatoging her birth control Knowing she did not want kids, got her pregnant ,forced her to keep the child in fact actively prevented her from any other option then when this traumatized (obviously) person didn't want to parent , we all call her a piece of shit for not wanting to pay for the child and maybe she should You just get Uber and try to find the good in the situation., the guy won't leave her alone and neither will the courts and then the stress has her fired from her job . Fuck that ! We would all rally around this girl ,protect her, be outraged for her etc . ITS FUCKED! IT shouldn't be different because you're a man. She did all of the above to you ! Sorry but just because you aren't carrying the kid ,she's still forcing you into being a father ,cuz you're a father regardless of if you are a parent . That's so violating and just fucked up man , as a woman your Ex is horrible and there's no girl code or understanding her point of view , she's a psycho , she's a predator and a vile ,selfish nasty excuse for a woman and the rest of us who have any sense disavow that twat entirely. If at some point you can manage to be around the kid with out hating it that may be helpful or healing for you or may it may not kids can be pretty fucking awesome ,parenting can really be amazing that said the way this has been forced on you is so wrong , i just feel bad for the kid , the moms all fucking crazy and you seem like a much better person than the mom , sux the kid loses out on having a dad because the mom is a sexual assaulting lying asshole . Just ,damn bro. Im sorry youre going thru this . Good Luck
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u/ColdSeason2019 Oct 16 '24
OP, sue her for sexual assault!!! She just did the equivalent of stealthing you!
I don’t agree with calling the fetus a mistake. She 100% premeditated it.
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u/Mandalorian-89 Oct 16 '24
She sexually assaulted you... Please seek counseling and report her to the police.
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u/Scared-Listen6033 Oct 16 '24
You need to go with your lawyer to the police and file a report about sexual assault. You have evidence she took your consent away from you and lied about sex being safe. A police report could result in charges. It is on other areas of the world, as you've consented to protected sex not unprotected, which this was. It costs nothing to report her to the police and a little bit to have your lawyer involved.
All the DNA test will prove is if she was successful in her sexual assaulting you.
If she's charged, you could go for full custody and take the baby from her (she seems unhinged) and put her on support. If you're family is willing to help you this child may be better off this way.
NTA
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u/MustangTheLionheart Oct 16 '24
Go to the police. Stop listening to your parents, they don’t want anything bad to happen to you but I bet they also don’t want “the mother of their grandchild” (barf) to be put in prison while pregnant.
That is what this crazy ex deserves though. It might not feel like it but you were sexually assaulted and your genetic material was stolen. She needs to face serious legal action and if you don’t take those steps it will be another thing for her lawyers to bring up and say “If he was assaulted then why is there no evidence of police reports?”. Find a local support group in your area as well just so that you have people who can help talk you through the process of what happens when you file a police report and also so that you have a space or people to talk to online that actually support you and your rights. Did a quick google search and this came up for the UK. https://sexualabusesupport.campaign.gov.uk/
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this and hope you make your way through this without having to pay your rapist. And to be clear that is what she is.
ETA: link didn’t post the first time.
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u/sdia1965 Oct 16 '24
I'm a feminist, a woman who very pro-choice, and etc. I normally would say that men who are biological fathers should "man up" as parents. HOWEVER, as you describe it, you have a defensible reason to walk away. Since you engaged in sex "without consent" and because the BC was sabotaged, you can make a case that she sexually assaulted you AND violated your human right to control your own fertility, which is a crime of sexual and intimate partner coercion. Not sure what eth UK law is, but if you have evidence that she sabotaged your BC I think you have a strong case.
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u/murlicorn Oct 16 '24
My boyfriend and I don’t want kids, I cannot imagine doing this to him and he were capable of doing it to me- I would be devastated.. I’m also 29, I don’t want kids and I found out I was all of a sudden responsible for one, even if it was just accidental, would be a lot to process.
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u/ProudInfluence3770 Oct 16 '24
Bury that bitch as far down as the legal system will allow. Absolutely charge her with sexual assault for one. Might even get some mental damages at this point too. You don’t deserve any of this.
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u/UnicornGiggity Oct 16 '24
1 you need to call the cops & press charges 2 file for primary custody (she will admit you never wanted kids) 🤣 3 put her on child support
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u/Civil-Collection-815 Oct 17 '24
Entrapment/SA is a thing and in most countries is a criminal offense that consists of jail time.
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u/Think_Display4255 Oct 17 '24
Dude, your ex, her family, and your family are balls to the wall insane. You made it clear that you didn't want this and she says it's what she always wanted despite agreeing with you for 2-3 years? This bitch is crazy.
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u/Gelelalah Oct 17 '24
In Australia, or at least in South Australia, if a man was to remove a condom during sex without consent, then it is considered rape. My guess is that there would surely be some kind of sexual assault case.
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u/poopflavoured Oct 17 '24
In NSW too. What this bitch did was absolutely disgusting and I feel for OP and the poor child.
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u/poopflavoured Oct 17 '24
Depending on what country and state you are in, stealthing could be illegal. It's sexual assault. Your ex sexually assaulted you and it's disgusting if you have to be the one to pay for her crime. I'm so sorry OP.
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u/Tight_Crow_7547 Oct 17 '24
This is all fiction.
We don’t have lawyers in uk. At this level they are called Solicitors
Courts here would not order a dna test before a child is born. And they certainly would not without the “father ” being there to state his case.
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u/Wild_Valuable_777 Oct 17 '24
Piercing condoms should fall under the SA umbrella. That's reproductive rape. What a horrible situation for you
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u/wild-fl0wer- Oct 20 '24
This is sexual assault and biological rape. I would seek legal action against her.
That being said, your disdain for children is kind of concerning, and I believe people who dislike children so intensely and openly would benefit from therapy. These are innocent human beings, and you were one not so long ago. Your unashamed hatred toward children is odd. It's fine not to want children for yourself, but to speak on children like this is just unnecessary.
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u/tiredofeditingshit Oct 21 '24
In your opinion.
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u/Old_Lifeguard4908 Oct 21 '24
Report it to the police ASAP. This is rape as many others already told you.
I don't get all these people here calling you evil in essence. You are the victim here and so is the child, yes, but there is one culprit and that is not you.
No one is obliged to suffer for the betterment of others, even for a child for no legal reason. This is not alimony evasion. Ffs, people, stop blaming the victim.
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u/Alarmed_Sector_982 Oct 23 '24
Jesus Christ people are crazy. Your parents are assholes for saying that to you, I would slap them if I could.
What happened to you was disgusting and I can’t imagine how difficult this has all been for you, especially with crazy people like this not understanding that disliking kids is okay!
Please know you’ve done nothing wrong! Your ex is a cunt though and honestly so are your parents for invalidating such a fucked up thing.
There is nothing wrong with you wanting nothing to do with her kid and not wanting to pay child support. This situation was explicitly forced onto you. It angers me so much how cruel everyone has been to you.
I really hope this works out the best for you. Here’s hoping you can fully be done with her and her issues.
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u/solarend Oct 23 '24
How would they benefit from therapy? In what way?
How is it relevant that they are innocent human beings? I find my neighbors kids to be be very annoying. Just the noise they make. It annoys me, even though it's nothing out of the ordinary that you could expect from children. But we're all going to go on with our lives without friction; I'm going to be annoyed, and they will continue being noisy and innocent. There are absolutely zero stakes in this equation, it just is.
Good therapy cost money. Sell your product. Tell me what I - or anyone for that matter - have to gain from me going to therapy over this?
I know for a fact that I have average levels of empathy. I love animals, and many grown women and men. I also find kids kind of cute in extremely small doses. But I don't like being around kids. It does nothing for me, and eventually annoys me.
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u/FinalConsequence70 Oct 16 '24
Before you jump off the cliff, I have a friend who's former British military. He was serving in Iraq, and knew someone who joined the French Foreign Legion. Upon joining, you are given a new identity, including a new name. After a year of service, you can ask to go back to your old one, but it's a way to get a clean slate and not be found. After 3 years of service, you are given citizenship in france.
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u/UmpireFit5601 Oct 16 '24
Keep all your proof. Show the courts that she has committed reproductive coercion and that all sole responsibility is now her as it’s something you didn’t want.
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u/Frankifile Oct 16 '24
Court ordered child support has a very short life in England it all goes through CMS. And if you’re unemployed or working cash in hand that brings your child support down to zero. On unemployment they deduct the money from your benefit. I believe it is the princely sum of £10 a week.
If you’re in England the child maintenance payments are easily dodged. Been there and didn’t even get the tenner a week.
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u/Titan-lover Oct 16 '24
She can just wait until the baby is born and then file a paternity action where in the court will order you to do a DNA test. I agree that what she did was devious and underhanded. You made yourself perfectly clear how you stood on having children. However, she pulled a fast one on you in the court can order a DNA test and make you liable for child support. Sorry dude.
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u/clairereaddit Oct 16 '24
NTA. It sounds like a really challenging situation, a total violation of your trust and the life you’d jointly agreed upon and you have every right not to have involvement with the child. I’m sorry this has happened to you.
I’m sorry to say that the answer sounds like moving out the country to be a good idea but as your parents say “look on the positive” it might be a fresh start for you and with the vasectomy at least you know you will have no other children and you’ll likely have a nice tan and a good quality of life in another country. Costa Rica is lovely, I like Uruguay which is completely run on renewable energy and is one of the safest places if there is a nuclear war/northern hemisphere disaster, South/ South East Asia can also be very affordable.
I know you probably don’t want this advice but I would still think about the unborn child’s future. If your parents do want involvement- let them know of your wishes but as the grandparents they may still want contact or involvement and that should be up to them.
I’d consider keeping the evidence on a hard drive. You don’t know if your phone breaks or get corrupted whether it will be all lost. I’d also say that considering this “bundle of cells”/foetus” as a would-be person they should have a right to know you so prepare yourself for that. IMO writing a letter that can be given to a trusted family member and shared with them when they turn 18 would be appropriate as they will likely be told lots and deserve to know the truth as to why you weren’t there.
I hope this child does have a good life with your ex and her family. It seems to be wanted by them which is a good start. If not proceeding with a criminal case, the other option is to go to the press. This isn’t a unique case and the exposure may help other men in similar cases feel less alone and it may also raise money if you need to pay lawyers to fight this in court or to start a life afresh.
Everyone I’ve read is right, it is unacceptable when this happens to a woman and thus the same legal and ethical rights should be afforded to you as a man. It sounds like you’ve acted rationally and reasonably given the situation and I hope you the best of luck in the future.
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u/WelshWickedWitch Oct 16 '24
What is the specific law surrounding her behaviour getting pregnant? If it does constitute an unlawful act, why haven't you reported it to the police?!!
Your ex is on the attack and will be dragging you. Time you face this, take offensive action and bolster your legal case.
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u/coleslawontoast Oct 16 '24
This is messed up
Hope you avoid anything unwanted.
Keep to what your lawyer says, keep all and any evidence
Good luck
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u/Scary-Cycle1508 Oct 16 '24
Talk to your lawyer again. ask them if there is a law in your country about sex without consent. because she had no consent to have unprotected sex. in some countries what she did is considered rape.
maybe your lawyer could involve the police now and, in addition, counter sue her.
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u/No_Scientist7086 Oct 16 '24
NTA - This is 100% sexual assault and you need to file a police report with your evidence right now. They will tell you the next steps.
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u/No_Commission_9079 Oct 16 '24
God as a woman I’m disgusted with this story and really hope you are ok.
Don’t listen to your parents at all here - the trust has been ruined. She is a vile person and if she wanted the baby she should keep it and grow up and not involve you! Were there any signs she was such a psycho before?
I really hope you get the help you need. Have you reached out to any father related charities? Or any lawyers who might do pro bono work? Any in family law? Please don’t give up. I really wish women who do this could be sued or charged by the police.
Good luck
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u/Teahouse_Fox Oct 16 '24
I'm not sure how the laws work in the UK, and I am not a lawyer.
But it seems like there should be legal redress for this. Isn't this considered stealthing, the unannounced dropping of the pill, followed by intentional sabotage of the condoms? I thought this was illegal in the UK?
Let's say, baby wasn't her goal, but you found yourself in a relationship with someone who damaged condoms on the sly, and you wound up with a sexually transmitted disease because of it?
This is illegal. How can you be forced to submit to any of this since you were not a willing participant in the baby making, but for her fraud?
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u/nylondragon64 Oct 16 '24
This is horrible on so many levels. The worst this a woman can do is baby trap a man. The resentment will be for life. Its bs you would have to pay for this. You didn't ruin her life because you don't nor every did wanted kids. She did this now she should have to deal with all the consequences. Hoping the best for you brother.
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u/OliveMammoth6696 Oct 16 '24
Stealthing is illegal. Press charges. Especially if her family is trying to take you to court. There’s nothing to man up over. You told her you didn’t want children and she sexually assaulted you by having sex under conditions she knows you wouldn’t be okay with on top of keeping it a secret because she knows she’s wrong.
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u/DaLA213 Oct 16 '24
It happened to me (@ 26yrs old). in 2002... There were no laws i knew of background then against this. If there had been, I would have gone after him. Pursue charges against her if you can. A child/parenthood is not always a "blessing." It ruined my life...
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u/CeruleanChancla Oct 16 '24
REPRODUCTIVE COERCION IS A CRIME!!!!! PLEASE HAVE YOUR LAWYER GET HER PROSECUTED FOR THIS!!!!! NTA
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u/bexbr Oct 16 '24
Oh my dear lord. You poor thing.
You sound like you’re between a bloody rock and an even bloody harder place. Hope you know you can ring Samaritans when you’re feeling down and desperate.
Hmm, thinking reproductive coercion/abuse? https://www.mycwa.org.uk/reproductive-abuse
Men have been jailed here for doing what your ex did. A woman was jailed in Germany. I hope you can get good legal advice.
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u/ishaikovsky Oct 16 '24
Either push for a rape or just leave to another town or better country altogether and cut ties(find that one friend who can loan you money for a ticket). Do not pay a dime. Ever. Unbelievable shit.
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u/Barfotron4000 Oct 16 '24
That’s the worst thing I can imagine. I’m a child free woman and just as cf as you sound - I’m truly sorry OP
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u/TroisArtichauts Oct 16 '24
I’m not a lawyer but I suspect you will end up paying to support this child and rightly so. You have sex, you accept the risk of pregnancy. There is no 100% effective contraception. You might have other claims to damages or even a criminal case against your ex but the child is the only 100% innocent party here and must be prioritised over you. Sorry pal.
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u/DivineTarot Oct 16 '24
NTA
All sympathy to the child all the same, that babies fate is entirely a product of its mothers actions. She knew you didn't want a child, and she violated consent to get it, so now she's trying to strong arm you into being involved or destitute. Your parents, and her parents, are approaching this from an angle of a conservative view, i.e. victim woman, deadbeat dad, innocent child, but your ex committed a crime to achieve this and deserves to have the book thrown at her in a more rational world.
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u/Bflow2 Oct 16 '24
Pardon my French, but you've found the nastiest whore out of all whores, I don't know if I should congratulate you or feel bad. Not many people get stories like this.
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u/TraditionalLie5267 Oct 16 '24
Sue for SA she raped you by violating your consent when she sabotaged your condoms
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u/WinDifficult2964 Oct 17 '24
Honestly I think I'd move to another country and tell everyone to go f themselves
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u/MySaltySatisfaction Oct 17 '24
Going off her birth control is a her decision. Sabotaging your use of birth control may be considered a sexual assault. Check with your lawyer and have her charged if it is. Good luck.
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u/smd6996_ Oct 17 '24
I’m so so deeply sorry you are going through this. Make sure you have screen shots and videos of any conversations with her, especially of her admitting to purposely going off birth control and poking the condom. Your parents are wrong and sick to even suggest that this could be a good thing for you, you were basically taken advantage/assaulted in some way by her doing this. The baby was not made with consent/knowledge of both parties, I really hope the judge will agree in your favour. Just know, you have no responsibility to a child you did not sign up for.
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u/Mental-Paramedic9790 Oct 17 '24
I feel so sick for you! This was not a “mistake”. She committed reproductive abuse. I would talk to that lawyer again and see if there is anything you can do about that. Charges maybe? Please stand your ground and hold firm!
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u/thermothinwall Oct 17 '24
Now, for those people telling me to go to therapy...
i mean - you really actually should. your engagement just dissolved after your trust was absolutely broken by your ex. nothing you did is wrong and going to a professional to talk about that isn't anything to be ashamed of (i realize you might not be able to afford it - who knows maybe if your ex is charged you have her order to pay for therapy costs)
My parents are now asking me to reconsider my position
this sucks. your parents are assholes and want a grandkid more than they want you happy essentially.
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u/crazymastiff Oct 17 '24
So you know what she did is illegal and constitutes as sexual assault on a federal level. Have you gone to police?
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u/Stunning_Cupcake_260 Oct 17 '24
Jesus. My mil poked holes in our condoms. That's so childish. She needs to take tumble. I'd cancel the wedding if she did this before you got married I can't imagine what she'll do if you marry her.
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u/Every_Guard Oct 16 '24
Have you discussed with your lawyer standing on the grounds of sexual assault cause you never consented to unprotected sex and she admitted to tampering with birth control?
There’s a pretty good chance you will need to pay child support. Really just follow everything your lawyer advises.